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No, Communism is a socio-economic system, like feudalism, capitalism etc. The main reason it is considered to be evil is that there has never been a democratic communist country.
.
You use the word "democracy" as if it means something different from "communism", it doesn't. In fact most communist countries call themselves democracies: Lao People's Democratic Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Democratic People's Republic of [North] Korea, etc.
Communism is what you get with pure democracy: mob rule, economic collapse, and inevitable dictatorship. Successful countries are in fact less democratic and have more controls in place to keep the people from voting for someone outside the political establishment.
I think it's a little more complicated, but basically you're on the right track. All real progress is always made against the majority, not with it.
I only disagree with the statement to the extent that while democracy may lead to communism (or its cousin fascism), in practice those systems usually kick aside the democratic element as excess baggage. But they still usually retain popular support from the swinish masses, right up to the point that the country is falling down around them.
I didn't mean to imply that I disagreed with you, but presented an argument that democracy and communism could co-exist (and they do in some countries, as you also noted, at a lesser level).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent
I agree with you, but I am a bit confused. What is it you disagree with me on. Yes there are communist governments on the state level like Kerala in India, and they are democratic and sucessful. Communism is a socio-economic system. Republics, Democracies, and Theocracies are political systems. In my opinion they Apples and Oranges. I think there can be communist democracies, just their haven't been any yet, as there are indeed socialist democracies that work and have worked very well. The best example is Greece which went from a third world capitalist dictatorship in the 1970s to a socialist democracy in the 1980s and under socialism it became a devoloped country and member of the EU. In the 1980s and 1990s the standard of living of the average Greek rose dramatically and the country prospered. To me the an economic system should be subordiante to the the will of the people and if people in a democracy vote for a communist, socialist, capitalist or feudalistic economic system then that is the system they should have.
A few quotes that say more about than anyone could really convey through careful thought out replies on here. Communism from it's poppa from one of it's most staunch supporters. You may recognize some of the same propaganda still in use today and I have you revert to the very first quote.
Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.
Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever.
If Socialism can only be realized when the intellectual development of all the people permits it, then we shall not see Socialism for at least five hundred years.
It is true that liberty is precious - so precious that it must be rationed.
No amount of political freedom will satisfy the hungry masses.
One man with a gun can control 100 without one.
Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.
The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses.
The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
To rely upon conviction, devotion, and other excellent spiritual qualities; that is not to be taken seriously in politics.
And for the ones who believe it's only about a socioeconomic system I would ask you to figure out America's per Capita GDP and then take out whatever % taxes you think would support the new communist government (I use around 40-50%) and see what the socioeconomic system would mean for America....Then figure it our on a global scale. If people find total equality really appealing ask yourself if you could live on around $22,000/year (If the government is generous) with pretty much no future other than that. That $20k is just for us in America....if you have universal equality it would be more closer $10k/year for each of it's comrades.
Of course in reality Using the GDP would be ridiculous but it does go to show how absurd the idea (at least in this time of history) of communism is.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,014,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr
don't those Communists wish that people would believe this new #$%@ about "oh-it-wasn't-COMMUNISM-but-really-it-was-the-dictatorship-that-gave-communism-a-bad-name-really-communism-is-good-in theory"
pfffft
*roll eyes*
I am sorry to break it to all the communists out there who wear pea green coats and infest the colleges, but COMMUNISM EQUALS SLAVERY!!!
Sorry, Mr Marx, but your idea sucks your idea only works by taking away all freedoms from individuals, but then that was your point, wasn't it?you hate individualism. You only like the masses, it's easier to controle them when they are stripped of all individualism.
This is the sad reality of what communism represents. I just wish more folks would see it for what it really is ... dominion of the powerful over the weakened masses.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosinante
No, it's those numb-skulled conservatives who still value those worthless ideals like religion and such that have given it a bad name. Communism is the best that any country can hope for, and that is why it is important that we unionize all forms of work in Amerika, and extend the number of terms President Obama can serve. I believe he and his children should be president for the next 50 years, or until the Communist Party of the USA supplants the Democrats. It is clear that we should band together to make certain that no Republican will ever get elected ever again.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,014,069 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques
If communism had ever existed apart from totalitarian states, police states or economic basket cases, it would deserve a shot at working, perhaps. But it hasn't, and that is a judgment in itself.
That's just it. For a communistic society to work, dissent needs to be silenced and oppressed. This is contrary to a democracy. Why would people voluntarily choose to give government all of that power and control over allotting resources as our politicians have proven time and time again that they cannot balance a budget?
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,014,069 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
And for the ones who believe it's only about a socioeconomic system I would ask you to figure out America's per Capita GDP and then take out whatever % taxes you think would support the new communist government (I use around 40-50%) and see what the socioeconomic system would mean for America....Then figure it our on a global scale. If people find total equality really appealing ask yourself if you could live on around $22,000/year (If the government is generous) with pretty much no future other than that. That $20k is just for us in America....if you have universal equality it would be more closer $10k/year for each of it's comrades.
Of course in reality Using the GDP would be ridiculous but it does go to show how absurd the idea (at least in this time of history) of communism is.
Most people don't even think of what equality for all will actually mean. Excellent post.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,014,069 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
A few quotes that say more about than anyone could really convey through careful thought out replies on here. Communism from it's poppa from one of it's most staunch supporters. You may recognize some of the same propaganda still in use today and I have you revert to the very first quote.
Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.
Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever.
If Socialism can only be realized when the intellectual development of all the people permits it, then we shall not see Socialism for at least five hundred years.
It is true that liberty is precious - so precious that it must be rationed.
No amount of political freedom will satisfy the hungry masses.
One man with a gun can control 100 without one.
Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.
The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses.
The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
To rely upon conviction, devotion, and other excellent spiritual qualities; that is not to be taken seriously in politics.
Scary but this is the direction our country wants to go with so many proponents being uneducated about what communism means.
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