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Old 01-09-2009, 10:39 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,054,795 times
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PS - If you think socialist like the theories of John Maynard Keynes, think again;

Two faces of John Maynard Keynes
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:30 PM
 
Location: in Music Forum w/feeling or Metal
2,051 posts, read 9,335,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
You know, I was really hoping for a discussion regarding the pros and cons of Keynesian economics or which free market economic theory, the proponents of "free markets" ascribe to, besides the obscure and lightly regarded and largely discredited "Austrian school" of economics...
Ahhh... don't give up hope just yet then. You have many views on the topic and maybe people were not sure how to respond. I found asking questions to a person's response gave deeper information as long as my manner of asking wasn't confrontational.

The links you gave after the above comments were very informative...

Keynesian View from the Right
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/bu...prod=permalink

Socialist View of Keynes
Two faces of John Maynard Keynes

It made me wish I could accommodate your desire for vigorous discussion; however these days I barely time now for a decent rest. I have 5 mins so came on to see how the discussion was going... (I remember also wishing to have in-depth discussions but was told by people that to do so was work and that people came here to relax and not work, so I can empathize... to some people, such is work tho it wasn't for me and maybe not for you either...)

I also thought that maybe you would find some use in a Bibliography of a paper presented at a conference in Belfast concerning problems Global groups have (G7, G20, Basle, and the Financial Stability Forum to name a few) when trying to build an economic consensus among a group of people with various economic beliefs (such as neo-liberal or neo-classical economic training etc.)

Global Financial Governance and Theories of Group Polarization

The paper is about "Group Polarization" and its difficulties within global groups that I now realize is far from what you might have hoped but still I think there is value in the Bibl.

My 5 min. are up, so got to go.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:35 PM
 
158 posts, read 515,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAtMcCain View Post
... 5. U.S Blame Game (dangerous to offend China) Jan 7 2009
U.S. blame game cannot change facts of financial crisis - People's Daily Online

Is this Free-market? No... and never has been. (Otherwise we would have had to let ALL the major banks fail in this country.) Is it Ideology? No... at least none that is usually identified.

What do "I" call it? To coin a term used by Grace Jones... (International) Corporate Cannibalism. (the slow eating away of nations ...
Thank you so much for providing links to a wealth of information regarding movements on the global level. It’s obvious that Globalists are working to make separate nations a thing of the past. It’s scary! but I want to understand what’s going on and know when government officials, who are supposed to represent U.S. citizens, have sold out by following the Globalists’ dictates.

World Leaders Agree to Seek World Reform:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...500902_pf.html

“Sources said other leaders, including Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, spoke out against Sarkozy's calls for broad global regulation, arguing that even in progressive Canada, the idea would be seen as violating national sovereignty."

In recalling Pres. Bush’s speech to the G20, it suddenly dawned on me that his talking about not engaging in protectionist behavior meant that world leaders should not aid citizens by offering aid to any national industry or establishing tariffs, no matter how much their citizenry might begin (or are presently) suffering economically. Protectionism is a code word, like new world order, and new global order.

"Many leaders frown on Obama's calls to bail out the auto industry as a form of protectionism. The section of the communique on the issue of protectionism prompted fierce debate, with discussions dragging on until 11 p.m. Friday, in a pitched battle between France and the United States, diplomats said.”

"But the gathering in Washington of the nearly two dozen nations -- from every region of the world -- reflected the new balance of power emerging in the aftermath of a financial crisis that has devastated even well-run economies, a wrenching process that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has dubbed the birth pangs of this new global order."

I was totally shocked to read:

"We are talking about the G-20 because the G-8 doesn't have anymore reason to exist. In other words, the emerging economies have to be taken into consideration in today's globalized world," Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said as he headed to the session."

= = = = = =
Without the info that you provided, I would have never known that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) is now directing nations.

World Leaders Agree to Seek World Reform:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...500902_pf.html

"Dominique Strauss-Kahn, managing director of the IMF, who also attended, called for nations to approve a fiscal stimulus equal to 2 percent of gross domestic product. Such a move, he said, would result in a 2 percent increase in growth. When asked where fiscal stimulus was need, he said, "everywhere, everywhere where it is possible.”

= = = = =
It is obvious that the United States has completely lost its financial position. America is now begging for money!

"The US has had to go cap in hand to the Middle East asking for $300 Billion to fund the bail out for the auto industry. The US economy has long been shored up by the Gulf States and China.”

US asks Arab nations for 300 Bil to fund Auto bailout:]
http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/us...d-auto-bailout

= = = = =
The rest of the world knows that U.S. investment bankers caused the worldwide economic meltdown. Why? Because they bought the securities from them.

“… property companies, investment banks and insurance companies juggled various financial products and Wall Street "elites" snatched tens of millions out of the bubble."

US blame game cannot change facts of financial crisis:
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...4/6569743.html

= = = = =
Information that is economically impacting our lives and our descendants is not being reported. It’s the same old Democrat versus Republican stuff, which has proved a highly effective diversion from the real issues. This old tactic continues work to our detriment.

I hope that we as a nation will realize that we’re about to fall off the precipice if we continue squabbling instead of focusing on solving our problems, which are massive. Otherwise, the only light we’ll see at the end of the tunnel is the train coming at us, and there will be no time to recover.

Last edited by Cellie; 01-09-2009 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
558 posts, read 818,986 times
Reputation: 214
Default We're sick of these extremists telling us the earth isn't flat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
You know, I was really hoping for a discussion regarding the pros and cons of Keynesian economics or which free market economic theory, the proponents of "free markets" ascribe to, besides the obscure and lightly regarded and largely discredited "Austrian school" of economics. Instead, once again, we have been treated to a nebulous conflation of capitalism vs socialism as if there aren't pro-capitalist economic theories that lie somewhere in between.

Oh, well.

This reminds me of my threads where I asked for an explanation of how Obamas original tax proposals differed from tax policies over the last 95 years, I never got a response on those threads either. Perhaps, I have been giving posters here too much credit, in the belief that there was something deeper in their thinking than espousing slogans.

Double oh well.
No you weren't. If you were, you would have worded your OP more specifically so as to filter out the responses you'd no doubt find unacceptable (i.e. those from Austrian school proponents, purists, et al). Thus, it's clear you were just trolling. I find it interesting that certain ideas (some of which are supported by people a lot brighter and more knowledgeable than you) aren't allowed on the table for discussion. I'm sure you'll be happy to hear this will be my last post in one of your open discussions.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:18 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,054,795 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInTheShell View Post
No you weren't. If you were, you would have worded your OP more specifically so as to filter out the responses you'd no doubt find unacceptable (i.e. those from Austrian school proponents, purists, et al). Thus, it's clear you were just trolling. I find it interesting that certain ideas (some of which are supported by people a lot brighter and more knowledgeable than you) aren't allowed on the table for discussion. I'm sure you'll be happy to hear this will be my last post in one of your open discussions.
May I summarize?

I don't have an answer to how a laize-fare economic model would work in this economy, so I will accuse the thread author of trolling instead.

Perhaps you will someday understand the difference between a troll and a challenge and respond accordingly.

Last edited by ovcatto; 01-10-2009 at 08:51 AM..
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