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In your previous sentence, you seemed to claim a stronger alliegance to your state than for your country. That might explain your sympathy for Confederate symbolism.
As far as my "sympathy for Confederate symbolism," I think my sympathy derives from the fact that so many Americans refuse to acknowledge the ambiguity of the confederate flag. People assume that the flag objectively represents racism, when in reality the meaning is very subjective. It's meaning can vary from heritage, to southern pride, to federalism, to racism, to rebelliousness, to reverence of the Confederate dead, to slavery, or to something else entirely.
I don't expect anyone to "like" it, nor do I personally believe that it is a great and noble symbol. Even though it does "represent my heritage," my heritage is something I have mixed feelings about.
Once again from what I've learned from this board, the confederate flag, for me, represents a critical time in the history of American when southern whites sought ( in selfishness I now believe) to ignore the rights of those who were suffering from even more oppression than them and take up the cause of their own personal rights because the southern whites felt that they were being oppressed by the north. To me it means that at that critical point in redefining what the flag could mean today, the southern whites dropped the ball so to speak by not helping to get help and support from blacks and slaves first (who probably would understand how oppressed they felt more than anyone else) and then take up arms and the flag together to change America. Because they didn't, to me, the flag is all about them, a divided south.
Once again from what I've learned from this board, the confederate flag, for me, represents a critical time in the history of American when southern whites sought ( in selfishness I now believe) to ignore the rights of those who were suffering from even more oppression than them and take up the cause of their own personal rights because the southern whites felt that they were being oppressed by the north. To me it means that at that critical point in redefining what the flag could mean today, the southern whites dropped the ball so to speak by not helping to get help and support from blacks and slaves first (who probably would understand how oppressed they felt more than anyone else) and then take up arms and the flag together to change America. Because they didn't, to me, the flag is all about them, a divided south.
Interesting take! I was about to totally disagree with you by saying I envisioned NO way the common white southerner could have gained. But once I think about it much more thoroughly, it makes incredible sense! Southern farmers, plantation owners and small family farmers alike, were unable to sell their cotton to Britain for a fair market price because of taxes imposed on the imports of wool by northern manufacturers who wanted to control the cotton industry. They were able to do this because they had substantially larger delegations in Congress than sourthern states. The obvious way to have evened this would have been to force emancipation and give the right to vote to the former slaves making a HUGE block of voters that would have forced a reallocation of Congressional seats. Voila!! The south can impose it's will on the union! Yep...a HUGE lost opportunity!
Interesting take! I was about to totally disagree with you by saying I envisioned NO way the common white southerner could have gained. But once I think about it much more thoroughly, it makes incredible sense! Southern farmers, plantation owners and small family farmers alike, were unable to sell their cotton to Britain for a fair market price because of taxes imposed on the imports of wool by northern manufacturers who wanted to control the cotton industry. They were able to do this because they had substantially larger delegations in Congress than sourthern states. The obvious way to have evened this would have been to force emancipation and give the right to vote to the former slaves making a HUGE block of voters that would have forced a reallocation of Congressional seats. Voila!! The south can impose it's will on the union! Yep...a HUGE lost opportunity!
The North would have probably blocked suffrage for ex-slaves to stop this. After all, it wasn't until 1869 that Congress even extended the right to vote to people "regardless of race, color, or previous servitude" and this was to address the disparity of the Union states not granting suffrage while Congress had compelled Southern states to do so.
The North would have probably blocked suffrage for ex-slaves to stop this. After all, it wasn't until 1869 that Congress even extended the right to vote to people "regardless of race, color, or previous servitude" and this was to address the disparity of the Union states not granting suffrage while Congress had compelled Southern states to do so.
DC
You just went over my head. What do you mean by blocking suffrage for ex slaves to stop this. I don't mind a little history lesson. Wouldn't we still be looking different at the confederate flag or would the flag still have a different meaning today?
I had ancestors fighting in the civil war on the Confederate side... and I don't consider the Confederate Flag part of my heritage that I want to keep being reminded of. The Southerners fighting in the civil war were fighting to support a very harmful system that was institutionalized pain upon fellow human beings. No matter how much you like your state or region, it is time to move on and make a better world. If that means we relegate some stuff to the history books... what's the problem with that? Hate shouldn't be a heritage.
You just went over my head. What do you mean by blocking suffrage for ex slaves to stop this. I don't mind a little history lesson. Wouldn't we still be looking different at the confederate flag or would the flag still have a different meaning today?
I was responding to Stormcrow's post. Emancipation didn't mean the right to vote. When the United States was founded, there were a host of qualifications that had to be met in order to vote. Initially, I believe you had to be a white male landowner; I think the voting age may have been higher, as well, something like 25. Some states actually did have religious qualifications so suffrage wasn't universal. Stormcrow agrees with you that if the Southern states had freed the slaves, they could have gained Congressional power and lifted the taxes and restrictions that Northern business owners had lobbied for and got passed which harnessed the South economically. Since blacks were included in census records and at least somewhat to the population counts that determined Congressional representation, your suggestion implies that their votes would have been key in making legislative changes. I'm suggesting that even if the South had emancipated the slaves, the northern businessmen would have blocked suffrage by passing legislation prohibiting ex-slaves from voting. Even so, the 15th Amendment may have granted black men the vote, but is glaring in that that is all that was granted. The right to hold office, for instance, is not included. And it did not say anything further about qualifications to vote, which allowed the Jim Crow laws that flourished in the South (and somewhat in the North as well).
DC
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