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Thanks. No one that I've talked to about the flag has ever said that. Whenever I bring up my questions about southern culture, heritage or way of life they usually give me the deer caught in the headlights look. Then, the conversation is over for me because they cannot answer the question. I feel that if you say what you have said to me people will be more understanding of when you say the confederate flag is about heritage and that heritage does not include keeping or bringing back slavery (as the KKK would suggest).
Thank you. I will say that the exchange of ideas that we've had has been the most open and fair discussion I've had on the subject. It's something that can bring a lot of emotion on both sides, which is understandable. As with anything, seeking understanding should be the point of the discussion.
First, I really do appreciate that you are trying to understand other perspectives.
I would say that it's similar to the fact that slavery existed in the North but did not necessarily define the culture. Slavery was a very prominent aspect of southern business and economy but did not define the people, their values, their focus on family, friendly neighbors, community, religion, manners etc.
Oh it most certain did define:
The People: Black Africans, purchased and sold
The Values: Whatever the going rate was for a male buck, a fertile female winch, or a male child with all his limbs and teeth
The Family: Torn apart at the whim of sale or purchase. The family unit of Blacks was not to be considered in the face of good economics.
Religion: Dictated by the owner of those Black persons, not the personal choice of the persons themselves
Community: Yes, I suppose there was a slave community
Manners: A slave dare not lose his or her manners
But then, you were waxing poetically about white people, weren't you. So tell us; what is the "heritage" of Southern Black people?
The Values: Whatever the going rate was for a male buck, a fertile female winch, or a male child with all his limbs and teeth
The Family: Torn apart at the whim of sale or purchase. The family unit of Blacks was not to be considered in the face of good economics.
Religion: Dictated by the owner of those Black persons, not the personal choice of the persons themselves
Community: Yes, I suppose there was a slave community
Manners: A slave dare not lose his or her manners
But then, you were waxing poetically about white people, weren't you. So tell us; what is the "heritage" of Southern Black people?
I was talking about for the people that view the flag differently from you. As for the heritage of Southern Black people, yes it was slavery for most just as it was for those in the North. For some, it was as free soldiers in the Confederate Army. That doesn't really change the intent of the people who disagree with you on what the flag means to them.
I was talking about for the people that view the flag differently from you. As for the heritage of Southern Black people, yes it was slavery for most just as it was for those in the North. For some, it was as free soldiers in the Confederate Army. That doesn't really change the intent of the people who disagree with you on what the flag means to them.
But do you understand then why the flag is viewed as being so devisive and not glorified by many? The American flag (did some dirt before and after the war) but became a symbol of unity. This is interesting. There were two types of people living in the south when the confederate flag came be:free white people and black slaves. Slavery divided these peoples views of what the flag means. It was two very different souths. So southern heritage and way of life has come to mean two very different things to two different groups of people who, while they lived in the same part of the country, experienced two very different outcomes. This is why the flag is still a symbol of that divisiveness. Every time you explain what heritage, way of life or honor it means to you (or white people during that time), the same symbol always mean heartache for the other south because their experience, while it happened at the same time, came to mean something very awful. It's a hard challenge that you ask of me. It seems like to me that your asking me and people who look like me look at the flag and not remember or think about what our ancestors experience at that time in the south was. It seems like your asking me and people like me to just look at the confederate flag and only see it as what it means to you. Is that possible? If so, that's a very tall order.
The Values: Whatever the going rate was for a male buck, a fertile female winch, or a male child with all his limbs and teeth
The Family: Torn apart at the whim of sale or purchase. The family unit of Blacks was not to be considered in the face of good economics.
Religion: Dictated by the owner of those Black persons, not the personal choice of the persons themselves
Community: Yes, I suppose there was a slave community
Manners: A slave dare not lose his or her manners
But then, you were waxing poetically about white people, weren't you. So tell us; what is the "heritage" of Southern Black people?
Not to be too blunt about it, but any discussion of the heritage of Southern Black people -- tragic as it may be -- must nonethless include a consideration of the benefits their descendants have gone on to realize, including citizenship in the United States of America as it has progressed in the areas of economic, educational, and cultural opportunities -- in marked contrast to the often chaotic, dangerous, and unstable socieities which exist in the west African countries which are their ancestral homelands.
But do you understand then why the flag is viewed as being so devisive and not glorified by many? The American flag (did some dirt before and after the war) but became a symbol of unity. This is interesting. There were two types of people living in the south when the confederate flag came be:free white people and black slaves. Slavery divided these peoples views of what the flag means. It was two very different souths. So southern heritage and way of life has come to mean two very different things to two different groups of people who, while they lived in the same part of the country, experienced two very different outcomes. This is why the flag is still a symbol of that divisiveness. Every time you explain what heritage, way of life or honor it means to you (or white people during that time), the same symbol always mean heartache for the other south because their experience, while it happened at the same time, came to mean something very awful. It's a hard challenge that you ask of me. It seems like to me that your asking me and people who look like me look at the flag and not remember or think about what our ancestors experience at that time in the south was. It seems like your asking me and people like me to just look at the confederate flag and only see it as what it means to you. Is that possible? If so, that's a very tall order.
You are exactly right, and I agree with you that the flag divides people. I completely understand that it means something very different to people and that for some it can be something that's painful.
Personally, I do not fly the flag, own a t-shirt with it or anything of that nature. This is not because I'm offended by it; I just don't particularly identify with it. I do identify myself as southern and am proud to be southern. I present the perspective of those viewing the flag as heritage to try to clear some misconceptions about where they're coming from and to try to get people to move beyond the common stereotype of the southerner.
For all those who don't think anything is wrong with the confederate flag, do you think that maybe what is wrong with it is it's power to divide folks so much? Yes, I realize now that it means to something very positive to white southerners (beside the KKK) and always will. It will always mean something very awful to black southerners. So maybe, that's says it right there. Maybe that's the major problem with it. The flag only united a certain part of the south, not the entire south. So, can you see how divisive it was for itself? Then, it divided a nation back then. Now, even after all these years, it is still dividing and it's not entire the blame of the KKK. Because even before they highjacked the flag, there were two different souths.
You are exactly right, and I agree with you that the flag divides people. I completely understand that it means something very different to people and that for some it can be something that's painful.
Personally, I do not fly the flag, own a t-shirt with it or anything of that nature. This is not because I'm offended by it; I just don't particularly identify with it. I do identify myself as southern and am proud to be southern. I present the perspective of those viewing the flag as heritage to try to clear some misconceptions about where they're coming from and to try to get people to move beyond the common stereotype of the southerner.
You are a southern gentleman. You can teach your fellow southerners a lot. I have never learned so much about the flag than from this board. The next time I see it, it will still be painful considering what it may have meant to my ancestors who were from S. Carolina, but I do have much more insight than before.
He/she expects for people of Black ancestry to see the honor and pride in that flag, because to him/her, that flag represents the last of white superiority. Not surprisingly, someone with a superiority complex would even dare suggest that descendants of slaves see the "heritage" of fighting for the right to keep said slaves.
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