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Nice try but it won't sell. Your photo of The KKK is no more than a propaganda tool for those who use the Confederate Flag for their own personal and selfish purposes...and YES, it IS a heritage to be proud of
I am NOT a racist; neither am I a bigot nor one who is intolerant of others' feelings but we are talking about a proud flag...and one that was temporarily hijacked by this radical hate group.
....and please, spare me any return rhetoric as I have heard it all.
Should I point out the obvious fact here that today's "African-Americans" should be very grateful that their ancestors bore such a heavy burden, because it has allowed them to grow up in America and not Africa?
No, that would probably be politically incorrect, so I don't do that.
That's so silly. Of course I'm grateful for my ancestors and the heavy burden they bore and so should America. The early settlers got lots of free labor didn't they? Still, don't expect me to be grateful that my ancestors in Africa weren't given a choice as to whether or not they wanted to come to a different country. No one wants their free choice or freedom snatched away from them. I know what Africa is like now, compared to America, I still believe everyone wants to make their own choice vs. being kidnapped. It leaves too much animosity. If I had a choice of being kidnapped and taken to a foreign land and never see my family again, even if I would eventually have a better life, I'd still rather be with my family. I'd rather have remained in Africa (given a choice) and struggle with my family together for a better life no matter how bad conditions are/were in Africa. I hope you can understand that. Whenever Jews struggled as being slaves in Egypt it was different because they struggled together and the Jewish family unit is still intact. When the holocaust occurred, many of them went through it together. It's just different
Last edited by annibelle; 01-11-2008 at 09:18 AM..
Reason: corrections
The difference is that I'm not advocating for the "flag" of some street gang, while trying to palm it off as heritage.
You're right, you aren't. Instead, you're taking a racist fringe group, and taking THEIR values and ideals, and applying them to the flag which I consider to represent my heritage.
This is akin to me saying that because you are black, your heritage is that of street gangs.
Point being: both our heritages are a mix of good and bad. If you want me to take responsibility for some other group's past racism as my "heritage", then be prepared to take responsibility for all of the crime committed by black Americans, past and present.
One important point about the way people see the flag and what it means to them has been left out of this discussion. Prior to the war, there were towns in the South that were thriving economically. Those were destroyed during the war; some were intentionally burned. Following the war, there were economic policies etc. that were very damaging to the South, some were intentionally punitive others were not. These policies did significant and lasting damage to the South. The effects have been felt until recent history through less economic development. The reason for the South not really having large cities develop was not because they didn't know how to build the buildings. For people who take pride in the flag, it also symbolizes that through what were some difficult times for some, the southern culture and way of life (nothing to do with slavery) was able to remain intact and was valued.
Thanks for more info about what's so good about the flag to some people. I'm struggling here. Now, here's the big question for me. Help me understand how to separate how southern culture and way of life did not include slavery. This is the reason is why so many people see the flag in a negative way. Even before the KKK used the flag as a symbol of hatred, the southern way of life was immeshed in slavery. Weren't they one in the same? Southern way of life. Explain that to me, please.
You're right, you aren't. Instead, you're taking a racist fringe group, and taking THEIR values and ideals, and applying them to the flag which I consider to be my heritage.
This is akin to me saying that because you are black, your heritage is that of street gangs.
Turnabout is considered fair play.
I view the Confederate Flag as one of honor, dignity and one that was raised into battle by mostly Farmers in the South to defend themselves against the Yankees in their War of Aggression. Golly, gee, General Sherman sure did his part in burning the South down. Should we thank him for doing that so we could re build? Bless his heart, after all he spared Savannah!
Thanks for more info about what's so good about the flag to some people. I'm struggling here. Now, here's the big question for me. Help me understand how to separate how southern culture and way of life did not include slavery. This is the reason is why so many people see the flag in a negative way. Even before the KKK used the flag as a symbol of hatred, the southern way of life was immeshed in slavery. Weren't they one in the same? Southern way of life. Explain that to me, please.
First, I really do appreciate that you are trying to understand other perspectives.
I would say that it's similar to the fact that slavery existed in the North but did not necessarily define the culture. Slavery was a very prominent aspect of southern business and economy but did not define the people, their values, their focus on family, friendly neighbors, community, religion, manners etc. Slaves obviously did enter into the family situation in many instances, but did not define the family, just as a nanny or housekeeper today may play a role and not define the family system. The end of slavery brought about a change in the way business was done but did not necessarily change what people saw as important.
If someone proudly wears the sports jersey of their home team, should they not wear it because a gang has co-opted it as a symbol?
I see your point, but I would think no. They absolutely should not where it because it has been hijacked by a gang and now has a terribly different meaning. You're familiar with street gangs in S. Cali? They fight and kill themselves over 2 colors: red and blue. If you where the wrong color to school, you could get yourself into a lot of trouble. So, if I was a kid in S. Cali, I would look for some other colors as not to get caught in the crossfire. This has been an interesting lesson for me. There are some folks who view the flag positively, but the more you do, the more you will be caught in the crossfire of negative views in order to make your point. Still, I need help understanding how the southern way of life and southern heritage does not include slavery. Weren't the 2 immeshed together, one in the same?
First, I really do appreciate that you are trying to understand other perspectives.
I would say that it's similar to the fact that slavery existed in the North but did not necessarily define the culture. Slavery was a very prominent aspect of southern business and economy but did not define the people, their values, their focus on family, friendly neighbors, community, religion, manners etc. Slaves obviously did enter into the family situation in many instances, but did not define the family, just as a nanny or housekeeper today may play a role and not define the family system. The end of slavery brought about a change in the way business was done but did not necessarily change what people saw as important.
Thanks. No one that I've talked to about the flag has ever said that. Whenever I bring up my questions about southern culture, heritage or way of life they usually give me the deer caught in the headlights look. Then, the conversation is over for me because they cannot answer the question. I feel that if you say what you have said to me people will be more understanding of when you say the confederate flag is about heritage and that heritage does not include keeping or bringing back slavery (as the KKK would suggest).
I see your point, but I would think no. They absolutely should not where it because it has been hijacked by a gang and now has a terribly different meaning. You're familiar with street gangs in S. Cali? They fight and kill themselves over 2 colors: red and blue. If you where the wrong color to school, you could get yourself into a lot of trouble. So, if I was a kid in S. Cali, I would look for some other colors as not to get caught in the crossfire. This has been an interesting lesson for me. There are some folks who view the flag positively, but the more you do, the more you will be caught in the crossfire of negative views in order to make your point. Still, I need help understanding how the southern way of life and southern heritage does not include slavery. Weren't the 2 immeshed together, one in the same?
I am familiar with them. I think the reason you point out is a good one but different from what I meant. Your point is about personal safety. In what I meant, it would be more like saying that you should not wear a jersey of your favorite team because now that the gang wears it, your wearing it symbolizes support for the gang.
Come on people, its a colorful rag that was sewed together to run up a pole, same as the American flag.jeezzzz
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