Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not all spending is pork, never said that.
1. How is a bullet train necessary infrastructure?
ALL transportation is BY DEFINITION Infrastructure. The fact that YOU don't approve of a particular mode of transportation is completely irrelevant. Such spending fits the purpose of the bill.
in·fra·struc·ture (nfr-strkchr)
n.
1. An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2. The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
Alaska got approx. 16 million dollars worth of free heating oil from Citizen's energy this year. That's Venezuela, Chavez. I couldn't find the update to the link, it went through on Jan. 19th this year. Chavez's free heating oil program on hold: Rural Alaska | adn.com
Alaska got approx. 16 million dollars worth of free heating oil from Citizen's energy this year. That's Venezuela, Chavez. I couldn't find the update to the link, it went through on Jan. 19th this year. Chavez's free heating oil program on hold: Rural Alaska | adn.com
This program aims to supply low-income families with heating oil ...
Venezuela reinstates oil program for the needy in U.S. - International Business - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/business/international/story/842522.html - broken link)
Quote:
Kennedy has said no U.S. oil companies have offered to provide his organization with heating oil for needy families.
ALL transportation is BY DEFINITION Infrastructure. The fact that YOU don't approve of a particular mode of transportation is completely irrelevant. Such spending fits the purpose of the bill.
in·fra·struc·ture (nfr-strkchr)
n.
1. An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2. The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
Ken
Ok, since I guess I must get specific for you, how is a bullet train from Los Angeles to Las Vegas NEEDED infrastructure? It is NOT a basic service or facility and is not needed for L.V. OR L.A. to "function". Since it doesn't fit the definition YOU posted it's PORK.
One man's pork is another man's paycheck. The Iraq and Afghan wars are the purest pork of the private sector contractors. I would much rather have my money used to build a train to than moon than be used to support civillian killing mercenaries.
Ok, since I guess I must get specific for you, how is a bullet train from Los Angeles to Las Vegas NEEDED infrastructure? It is NOT a basic service or facility and is not needed for L.V. OR L.A. to "function". Since it doesn't fit the definition YOU posted it's PORK.
First of all - let me repeat this for you:
"The fact that YOU don't approve of a particular mode of transportation is completely irrelevant."
Maybe you would like us to stick to horses, buggies and covered wagons - those are transportation too. Based on YOUR interpretation it seems that cars, airplanes and trains may not be NEEDED either. Have you given up your car and changed over to a bicycle? That's TRANSPORTATION too - so based on your idea that we go to the lowest common denominator for our definition of "Transportation" THAT should suit your needs just fine. I'm not really sure what you think is "unneeded" - the "high speed" part, the "rail" part, or the specific link between LA and LV.
Millions of people drive from LA to LV every year - a 4 hour (or so) trip that uses a lot of gas when multiplied by all the vehicles making the trip. That's gas that we IMPORT. Rail lines can help us cut those imports since rail is MUCH more fuel efficient than automobiles. HIGH-SPEED rail lines make that that option more attractive to customers - and thus more likely to be used and thus financially successful.
It doesn't matter whether the routes are between NW & DC or between LA & LV. If it makes sense to put the line in along that route (based on projected usage) then THAT'S where the money should be spent. Do you dislike the idea simply because it runs from LA or to LV (or both). I got news for you - LOTS of people visit those places and travel between them (whether you approve or not) - so I can see where this is an idea that may make a lot of sense.
Secondly, I don't think the particular item you mention is EVEN in the bill. There is simply money set aside for high-speed rail (an area where the US is WAY behind the rest of the world). I don't think there are specifics on WHICH lines those will be. If it does turn out that the LA-LV line is funded I have no problem with that. Rail transportation (ALL rail transportation) saves the country energy - and it makes the most sense to put those rail lines in where they are most likely to be heavily used.
Finally, I'm simply making the observation that ALL transportation (no matter what the variety) fits the DEFINITION of infrastructure - and thus is suitable for the bill (whether YOU happen to like that particular mode of transportation or not).
Lord and Greg,
It seems that common sense has left the building along with critical thinking unfortunately.
Lord, you're quite right it doesn't specifically state a train from LA to LV but let's use a little critical thinking and a dose of cyncisim okey dokey?
First, the guy that hand wrote that into the bill is from where exactly? Is it totally out of the world of sanity to think that the guy who wrote it (at the last minute btw) meant it to be used in his district? Hasn't he already discussed his desire to have a train such as this in the past? Hmmm, 1+1 =? We need to take of the partisan glasses and see both parties for what they've become, self serving crooks.
Greg, pointing to one possible bad behaivor to justify another is simply not right. So you don't like all the money spent on the two wars right? So following your logic lets just take half of the stimulus package and give it to all the people in CA who haven't had a job in the last 5 years or make less than $30k a year? Heck, it's better than spending it on Iraq or Afganistan right?
The other half can go as a contribution to the Republican party for the next elections, again, anything's better than spending it on 2 wars right?
Lord and Greg,
It seems that common sense has left the building along with critical thinking unfortunately.
Lord, you're quite right it doesn't specifically state a train from LA to LV but let's use a little critical thinking and a dose of cyncisim okey dokey?
First, the guy that hand wrote that into the bill is from where exactly? Is it totally out of the world of sanity to think that the guy who wrote it (at the last minute btw) meant it to be used in his district? Hasn't he already discussed his desire to have a train such as this in the past?
That will ALL depend on WHO actually makes the determination as to where that high-speed rail money is spent. Is HE making that final determination - or is it going to be decided elsewhere - for example by the US Department of Transportation? If HE is making the decision, they yeah, that project will likely get some funding (not that that is necessarily a bad thing - as I already mentioned), it's it's NOT HIM making the detailed allocations, then the money may go elsewhere (there are lots of people clamoring for high speed rail money)
I don't know know where it's specified WHO makes the final decision on HOW the high speed rail money is spent. The bill was just an allocation of high-level funding, not a plan about WHO will determine the details (at least as far as I have read). Can you provide any details on who will decide the details on how that money is spent? If so, kindly provide a link.
Here's a map of the designated High Speed Rail Corridors in the US.
As you can see - even though it would make sense to include it - LA to LV is NOT included in those plans (let alone a "magnetic levitate train" as Jindal claimed)
IF that money is used for such a project THEN you may have a claim it was pushed into the plan as pork for Nevada by Reid. Until that time, I think perhaps you should reconsider your own definition of "critical thinking".
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 01-31-2010 at 01:41 PM..
That will ALL depend on WHO actually makes the determination as to where that high-speed rail money is spent. Is HE making that final determination - or is it going to be decided elsewhere - for example by the US Department of Transportation? If HE is making the decision, they yeah, that project will likely get some funding (not that that is necessarily a bad thing - as I already mentioned), it's it's NOT HIM making the detailed allocations, then the money may go elsewhere (there are lots of people clamoring for high speed rail money)
I don't know know where it's specified WHO makes the final decision on HOW the high speed rail money is spent. The bill was just an allocation of high-level funding, not a plan about WHO will determine the details (at least as far as I have read). Can you provide any details on who will decide the details on how that money is spent? If so, kindly provide a link.
Ken
Ok, (cynical voice kicks in) so you think that the person who put the money in the bill isn't going to get something he wants out of it? How exactly do you think D.C. runs?
Generally a pork rider gets slipped in at the last minute, the author gets a share for the pet project they want and any that's left goes to whatever else can use it. Kinda like the bridge to nowhere...
Oh wait, this administration is the completely honest one that would NEVER stoop to back scratching politics right?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We need to take of the partisan glasses and see both parties for what they've become, self serving crooks.
