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Old 02-26-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,947,765 times
Reputation: 879

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Don't panic and make any rash decisions. Every city and state in this country is reeling from the lousy Republican leadership we've had the previous 8 years. Ineffective policies or no policies domestically and abroad, nearly a TRILLION dollars wasted on a failed war. Cities are reeling from this absolute nonsense.

Sit tight...Barack Obama is on the job. He'll take this country out of this Republican-induced recession by the end of the year and Republican-leaning San Diego like every other city will benefit.

Forgive me but you're killing me Alexus. I don't get your logic.

Numero uno, you're hyper inflating your numbers. The war in Iraq to this day has cost only a little over $600 billion over ~6 a year period.

Do you think $100b per year is a lot? The 2008 budget ($2.66 trillion) paid three times that for unemployment and welfare. If your argument is that the Iraqi war broke our economy/cities, the numbers show that welfare recipients did three times the damage.

A failed war? Ask any Iraqi except former Ba'athists or terrorists how it feels to be finally freed from the maniacal grip that was Saddam's Iraq. How many 100's of thousands did Saddam have killed? The man used chemical weapons on his own citizens. Come on. 30million people were freed, a fledgling democracy established, a dictator executed and you call that a failure.

You are probaly too young to have seen school house rocks. If you did, you may have known how a bill becomes a law. This is important to understand if you're a participant in our democracy. Please take a look, its fun, trust me:
YouTube - Schoolhouse Rock- How a Bill Becomes a Law.

Now that we've reviewed how a bill becomes a law, we should establish that the US Legislature, eg Congress, ie the House and Senate, have been controlled by the Democrats for the last two years since Jan '07. Democrats Take Control on Hill - washingtonpost.com.

Being in majority, the Dem controlled Congress could have passed any number of bills and/or legistations to have have helped avoid this financial meltdown. But they didnt. And on the contrary, I could argue that Bush and the Repubs tried a number of times to push through financial reform only to have it blocked by Bernake and Dodds.

Furthermore, if you read any number of publications like Barons, the WSJ, Financial Times, and even the NYT commented in '99 (Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - New York Times), you will see substatiated that the crisis started with Freddy Mac, Fannie Mae, and ACORN forcing the banks to grant loans to the underqualified.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:39 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,164,079 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
Forgive me but you're killing me Alexus. I don't get your logic.

Numero uno, you're hyper inflating your numbers. The war in Iraq to this day has cost only a little over $600 billion over ~6 a year period.

Do you think $100b per year is a lot? The 2008 budget ($2.66 trillion) paid three times that for unemployment and welfare. If your argument is that the Iraqi war broke our economy/cities, the numbers show that welfare recipients did three times the damage.

A failed war? Ask any Iraqi except former Ba'athists or terrorists how it feels to be finally freed from the maniacal grip that was Saddam's Iraq. How many 100's of thousands did Saddam have killed? The man used chemical weapons on his own citizens. Come on. 30million people were freed, a fledgling democracy established, a dictator executed and you call that a failure.

You are probaly too young to have seen school house rocks. If you did, you may have known how a bill becomes a law. This is important to understand if you're a participant in our democracy. Please take a look, its fun, trust me:
YouTube - Schoolhouse Rock- How a Bill Becomes a Law.

Now that we've reviewed how a bill becomes a law, we should establish that the US Legislature, eg Congress, ie the House and Senate, have been controlled by the Democrats for the last two years since Jan '07. Democrats Take Control on Hill - washingtonpost.com.

Being in majority, the Dem controlled Congress could have passed any number of bills and/or legistations to have have helped avoid this financial meltdown. But they didnt. And on the contrary, I could argue that Bush and the Repubs tried a number of times to push through financial reform only to have it blocked by Bernake and Dodds.

Furthermore, if you read any number of publications like Barons, the WSJ, Financial Times, and even the NYT commented in '99 (Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - New York Times), you will see substatiated that the crisis started with Freddy Mac, Fannie Mae, and ACORN forcing the banks to grant loans to the underqualified.
Iraq war - remember the supposed reason for the Iraq war? WMD's. There weren't any. Remember Rummsfeld saying it could take 6 days, 6 weeks, he doubted 6 months. It has been 6 years. Failure.

Dems have only controlled congress for 2 years, and in that 2 years, Bush vetoed anything they tried to pass. This mess did not happen in the last 2 years. Who controlled congress before that? Oh ya, repubs.

I don't know all the details of Fannie, Freddie, and the loan industry, but I do know that there were banks that did not participate in sub prime mortgages. So, I don't know that anyone was "forcing" the banks to do that.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:15 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,947,765 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
Iraq war - remember the supposed reason for the Iraq war? WMD's. There weren't any.
Guess Saddam should have let UN weapon inspectors unfretted access to his arsenals and stockpiles. And maybe should have stopped supporting terrorists while boasting of his WMD deterrent.

Anyways. Whose reasons. Peaceniks reasons. Or true reasons.

When you sign a peace agreement, you have peace. When you break it, what do you have? Saddam broke every agreement he ever signed.

It spineless people who give dictators the benefit of the doubt and who acquiescence their behavior and by their act of non-action are guilty for allowing the dictators continued supression and violence on its people. And you sleep good at night, don't ya.

I have empathy for those who lack freedom, the down trodden. I believe in universal sufferage. Not just sufferage for American citizens but for this entire globe.

There comes a time in a culture's evolution that for it to continue evolving, they need freedom of choice and self determination. I cannot fathom the selfishness of anyone who would deny another persons freedom.

You can hide behind symantics all you want. But we did the right thing.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,947,765 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
So, I don't know that anyone was "forcing" the banks to do that.
"CRA was designed to increase minority homeownership. Whenever a bank wanted to grow or expand, ACORN would file complaints that it was not sufficiently sensitive to the needs of minorities in providing home loans. Agitators would then be unleashed."

Investor's Business Daily: ACORN's Senator

Last edited by mossomo; 02-26-2009 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:28 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,947,765 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
Bush vetoed anything they tried to pass.
Oh yeah really. You repeat everything you're told, don't ya. You fail. Bush only vetoed 12 items. Not one had to do with banking or financial reform.

One thing that really annoys me are sheep. Check your facts sir. It scares me that people like you vote because you're so easily duped.

Bush's Veto Record
1. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005
2. US Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability
3. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007
4. Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
5. Water Resources Development Act of 2007
6. Appropriations: Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, 2008
7. Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
8. National Defense Authorization Act for FY2008
9. Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
10. Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008
11. Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008
12. Medicare Improvement for Patients and Providers Act of 2008

Presidential Vetos - Bills Vetoed by President George W. Bush (2001-2008)
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:38 PM
 
4,586 posts, read 5,477,397 times
Reputation: 943
If we were all about removing every dictator, why didn't we remove all the dictators around the world? It's because Bush couldn't care one bit about removing dictators. He wanted war and Sadaam was the easiest mark with the biggest reward, oil. Sadaam was bad but he wasn't and isn't alone.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:42 PM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,810,759 times
Reputation: 1549
You are right - it was LACK of Republican leadership that got us into this mess.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:45 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,040,586 times
Reputation: 15038
Well I see this thread is under control. Carry on lads and ladettes.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,164,079 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
Guess Saddam should have let UN weapon inspectors unfretted access to his arsenals and stockpiles. And maybe should have stopped supporting terrorists while boasting of his WMD deterrent.

Anyways. Whose reasons. Peaceniks reasons. Or true reasons.

When you sign a peace agreement, you have peace. When you break it, what do you have? Saddam broke every agreement he ever signed.

It spineless people who give dictators the benefit of the doubt and who acquiescence their behavior and by their act of non-action are guilty for allowing the dictators continued supression and violence on its people. And you sleep good at night, don't ya.

I have empathy for those who lack freedom, the down trodden. I believe in universal sufferage. Not just sufferage for American citizens but for this entire globe.

There comes a time in a culture's evolution that for it to continue evolving, they need freedom of choice and self determination. I cannot fathom the selfishness of anyone who would deny another persons freedom.

You can hide behind symantics all you want. But we did the right thing.
supposing all of this is true... we are STILL there! Sadam has been gone for a long time now. WTF are we still doing there???!!!
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:48 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,164,079 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
Oh yeah really. You repeat everything you're told, don't ya. You fail. Bush only vetoed 12 items. Not one had to do with banking or financial reform.

One thing that really annoys me are sheep. Check your facts sir. It scares me that people like you vote because you're so easily duped.

Bush's Veto Record
1. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005
2. US Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability
3. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007
4. Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
5. Water Resources Development Act of 2007
6. Appropriations: Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, 2008
7. Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
8. National Defense Authorization Act for FY2008
9. Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
10. Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008
11. Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008
12. Medicare Improvement for Patients and Providers Act of 2008

Presidential Vetos - Bills Vetoed by President George W. Bush (2001-2008)
OK, I admit I don't have time to look up the details. Thanks for the list, though. In any case, dems have still only been in control of congress for 2 years, and this mess did not happen in 2 years.
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