Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In the real world, which colleges and universities do not contend with, a four-year college degree is worth about one year of real-world experience. Colleges and universities may be the bastion of knowledge, but they also live in a fantasy world where they are not paid for being productive. In the real world businesses want practical results, and good written and verbal communication skills. College does not prepare a student to provide for either.
At my company, you won't even get an interview without a college degree. A bachelors degree is probably the best investment you'll ever make. The vast majority of people with the intelligence and desire will get a college degree. Those who don't will always have 1000 excuses.
In the real world, which colleges and universities do not contend with, a four-year college degree is worth about one year of real-world experience. Colleges and universities may be the bastion of knowledge, but they also live in a fantasy world where they are not paid for being productive. In the real world businesses want practical results, and good written and verbal communication skills. College does not prepare a student to provide for either.
Slave labor is productive, do you like that?
College is a time to learn, explore, and enjoy your life.
You'll be working for the rest of it.
I work in a business, I'd hire a college grad any day of the week over one with none. I prefer liberal arts educations but take pretty much anything.
College extends your roadmap, you see the world differently.
In the real world, which colleges and universities do not contend with, a four-year college degree is worth about one year of real-world experience. Colleges and universities may be the bastion of knowledge, but they also live in a fantasy world where they are not paid for being productive. In the real world businesses want practical results, and good written and verbal communication skills. College does not prepare a student to provide for either.
This is great in theory, but very unrealistic. I have a degree in Computer Science, and the theory I learned in college is very difficult to learn on the job. When your job is simply to 'make a program work' you aren't going to naturally pick up SQL optimization schemes or sorting algorithms for heap performance. These are things people with doctorates have spent years studying. If you are in a soft field like sales or marketing then sure, I bet you can pick it all up. If you are in a technical field that requires more than just 'people skills' to do well then you need an education. I just finished optimizing a server backup process where the person before me just 'learned it as they went'. The process took 22 hours to run before I got here! Using basic knowledge taught to any CS undergrad I got the program down to 4 hours. You obviously are not in a technical field, because the simple fact is there are things you just can't pick up on the job. Next time you are in a doctor's office ask if a medical student can treat you. You won't mind if they just learn from their mistakes, right?
In the real world, which colleges and universities do not contend with, a four-year college degree is worth about one year of real-world experience. Colleges and universities may be the bastion of knowledge, but they also live in a fantasy world where they are not paid for being productive. In the real world businesses want practical results, and good written and verbal communication skills. College does not prepare a student to provide for either.
I agree that real world experience is very important but how do you get your foot in the door to receive this? Well you up your chances with a college degree. We have already seen manufactoring and other labor intensive physical jobs being annihilated (computerized, outsourced, transferred to even more unskilled labor via new immigrants or illegal immigants, or just plain downsized). Our economy relies alot more on knowledge-based jobs where intellectual capital is what is needed to keep us afloat. This isn't changing anytime soon so those that are aversed to the idea of obtaining a degree (or even worse learning period) are going to find themselves perpetually at the "bottom of the totem pole" (With few exceptions which everyone likes to point out like Bill Gates. Good luck with that).
This is great in theory, but very unrealistic. I have a degree in Computer Science, and the theory I learned in college is very difficult to learn on the job. When your job is simply to 'make a program work' you aren't going to naturally pick up SQL optimization schemes or sorting algorithms for heap performance. These are things people with doctorates have spent years studying. If you are in a soft field like sales or marketing then sure, I bet you can pick it all up. If you are in a technical field that requires more than just 'people skills' to do well then you need an education. I just finished optimizing a server backup process where the person before me just 'learned it as they went'. The process took 22 hours to run before I got here! Using basic knowledge taught to any CS undergrad I got the program down to 4 hours. You obviously are not in a technical field, because the simple fact is there are things you just can't pick up on the job. Next time you are in a doctor's office ask if a medical student can treat you. You won't mind if they just learn from their mistakes, right?
Actually, I am in a technical field. For the last 18 years I have been running a business that develops custom databases and applications for businesses. After countless interviews of college graduates with their BACS or BSCS, I will gladly hire someone with one year real-world experience over a four-year graduate with no real-world experience, and I know that I am not the only employer who treats degrees with disdain.
I don't care if you have memorized the Shell-Metzner Sort algorythm, or if you understand paging in B* trees. My chief concern is whether you can sit down with a client and determine their needs and then translate that into a specification document. I have found no one with a four-year degree, and no real-world experience, who could perform such a task. In fact, most degreed programmers I have met don't even bother with documentation of any kind. If they are very lucky, college students may learn one or two programming languages that are not more than 5 to 10 years obsolete. If college students are not so lucky they were taught COBOL or some obscure language that is rarely used outside of academia.
Colleges and universities are a great places to learn theories and esoteric knowledge, but not so useful if you want real-world skills.
In the real world, which colleges and universities do not contend with, a four-year college degree is worth about one year of real-world experience. Colleges and universities may be the bastion of knowledge, but they also live in a fantasy world where they are not paid for being productive. In the real world businesses want practical results, and good written and verbal communication skills. College does not prepare a student to provide for either.
College is the real world as much as IT, health care and every other type of profession. You think professors aren't paid for results? Ever heard of "publish or perish"? It's not just sitting around eating bon-bons all day. Colleges most definitely prepare good written and verbal communication skills. I guess you'd never hire me, I have a BS. I think you shouldn't be so narrow-minded.
Actually, I am in a technical field. For the last 18 years I have been running a business that develops custom databases and applications for businesses. After countless interviews of college graduates with their BACS or BSCS, I will gladly hire someone with one year real-world experience over a four-year graduate with no real-world experience, and I know that I am not the only employer who treats degrees with disdain.
I don't care if you have memorized the Shell-Metzner Sort algorythm, or if you understand paging in B* trees. My chief concern is whether you can sit down with a client and determine their needs and then translate that into a specification document. I have found no one with a four-year degree, and no real-world experience, who could perform such a task. In fact, most degreed programmers I have met don't even bother with documentation of any kind. If they are very lucky, college students may learn one or two programming languages that are not more than 5 to 10 years obsolete. If college students are not so lucky they were taught COBOL or some obscure language that is rarely used outside of academia.
Colleges and universities are a great places to learn theories and esoteric knowledge, but not so useful if you want real-world skills.
The fact that you used such an emotionally charged word as "disdain" is indicative that there's more here than just feeling like the candidate is less qualified. Almost sounds like you look for reasons not to hire a person with a degree out of sheer resentment. In college, we were expected to take on internships and many of my friends in technical fields pursued this even if such internships were "free". Therefore, they had the benefit of education and some idea of how things might look in the real world. I don't know where you are meeting all of these ignorant people with degrees that can't be trained like your 1 year of experience, no degreed person. It's a sad statement, not only on the educational institutions where you live but the labor pool as a whole.
Actually, I am in a technical field. For the last 18 years I have been running a business that develops custom databases and applications for businesses. After countless interviews of college graduates with their BACS or BSCS, I will gladly hire someone with one year real-world experience over a four-year graduate with no real-world experience, and I know that I am not the only employer who treats degrees with disdain.
I don't care if you have memorized the Shell-Metzner Sort algorythm, or if you understand paging in B* trees. My chief concern is whether you can sit down with a client and determine their needs and then translate that into a specification document. I have found no one with a four-year degree, and no real-world experience, who could perform such a task. In fact, most degreed programmers I have met don't even bother with documentation of any kind. If they are very lucky, college students may learn one or two programming languages that are not more than 5 to 10 years obsolete. If college students are not so lucky they were taught COBOL or some obscure language that is rarely used outside of academia.
Colleges and universities are a great places to learn theories and esoteric knowledge, but not so useful if you want real-world skills.
I will honestly say I am glad I don't work for you. You would really rather have a programmer who knows how to write documentation and comment programs over someone who knows how to program in object oriented languages? Wouldn't you rather teach someone what a comment is over teaching them what a class or namespace is? I think it is a little easier to pick up how to write a user manual on a job than it is to figure out the difference between passing a variable by value vs by reference. The value of a CS education is not in learning a specific language, it is being able to look at any language and pick it up BECAUSE you understand the theory, and because you understand why you are doing what you do.
Depends on the major, the college, and the individuals attitude towards the major. More and more college are becoming nothing but businesses and not caring weather the students actually learn!!!
I think all potential college-grads need to ask themselves a few questions:
1) Is the cost worth the benefit to you? If you don't come from a family of money, are you prepared to take on student loans? Those come due whether you finish your degree or not. You are effectively shooting yourself in the foot by not finishing your degree and still having to pay student loans back.
2) If you take on student loans, are you prepared to do whatever is necessary to move up the career ladder (aka make more money) to pay them back? I refused to settle down with a few girls in college because they aspired to move back to their small town's after college. This would have meant both of us being relegated to whatever few opportunities existed in that small town. That was not an option for me, as I aspired for bigger and better.
3) Is your major a sensible course of study? Da Vinci 101 and Music Appreciation 220 may be quite interesting, but will it make you any money after college? Those pesky student loans will be a long-term reminder of the major you choose to study.
3) Are you mobile? Depending on your course of study, opportunities may not be abundant in your backyard. I'm in aerospace, which has meant a good deal of moving around to move up the ladder. Are you willing to move around to bolster your career?
I personally don't believe that college is a ripoff. Expensive, yes, but not a ripoff. I wouldnt' be where I am today if it wasn't for my higher education (and a severe case of wanderlust and drive). It's not for everyone, and it's certainly not an investment to take lightly.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
