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Old 02-27-2009, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,268,118 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Spare me the NWO cr@p. Your pessimism concerning the corporate world seems to contradict your optimism of our enlightened godvernment officials, who I assume wear halos on their heads in your fantasy world?
I don't think Park understands the way we think. Keep trying, anyway, because you never know when it will pass over to that being. Truth is a good thing and many libs come to it one at a time.
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Old 02-27-2009, 01:56 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,171,415 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I don't think Park understands the way we think. Keep trying, anyway, because you never know when it will pass over to that being. Truth is a good thing and many libs come to it one at a time.
The system has failed! The banks have failed, corporate America has failed, private home buyers have failed. All in the name of greed. All were left without regulation to succeed on their own, and they all failed. The government failed by not preventing it. Unfortunately, I think the government is the only entity that can fix it now.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:02 PM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,639,025 times
Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
The system has failed! The banks have failed, corporate America has failed, private home buyers have failed. All in the name of greed. All were left without regulation to succeed on their own, and they all failed. The government failed by not preventing it. Unfortunately, I think the government is the only entity that can fix it now.
So businesses, bankers and citizens (or at least the ones that bought homes?) have failed so miserably that our only hope lies with the government?!
Have you ever dealt with a government entity in your life? Hell, how about the DMV?
The government is our only hope....Bwahahahahaha
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,259,715 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
The system has failed! The banks have failed, corporate America has failed, private home buyers have failed. All in the name of greed. All were left without regulation to succeed on their own, and they all failed. The government failed by not preventing it. Unfortunately, I think the government is the only entity that can fix it now.
I agree about the greed. Its been at the core and heart of this whole cataclysmic slide downward and its still sliding. I disagree about the government. I'm not sure anyone can fix it. All government can do is print money and slow it a bit but the system is still broken and failed and can't fix itself.
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
Saving money not being a good idea is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It is ALWAYS a good idea to have money in the bank for an emergency.
I presume you sincerely believe what you wrote. But consider this tidbit - "money in the bank" is not sitting in a vault waiting for you to withdrawn it and spend it.
Any money (or what passes as current monies) deposited in a bank account is lent out at usury. That's how they earn "profit" - via usury. You don't realize it, but you're an accomplice to a criminal operation.

Simple math skills will show that long term usury (interest) is impossible to pay. Any sum of money, invested at compound interest, will eventually create an obligation that exceeds the whole set of available money. But short term usury is just as impossible. It manifests in a proportion of debtors who will default on their obligations - simply because the money does not exist with which to pay the usury.

What happens? The usurer confiscates the collateral, and moves on to the next victim. The poor debtor blames himself, but never blames the real culprit - his contract with usurers.

Ultimately, money madness will cause the collapse of the United States of America. Usurers will profit. Their victims will be dispossessed. The cycle will restart.

Not convinced?
Federal Reserve M1 Feb.2009 = 1558.3 Billion "dollards"

M1 consists of (1) currency outside the U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Banks, and the vaults of depository institutions; (2) traveler's checks of nonbank issuers; (3) demand deposits at commercial banks (excluding those amounts held by depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign banks and official institutions) less cash items in the process of collection and Federal Reserve float; and (4) other checkable deposits (OCDs), consisting of negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) and automatic transfer service (ATS) accounts at depository institutions, credit union share draft accounts, and demand deposits at thrift institutions.

1.55 Trillion = paper money supply in the USA. (recently increased via Congress' debt boom)

Can you guess what the outstanding liabilities amount to?
National debt in excess of 10 T.
GDP is in excess of 14 T.
Unfunded Socialist entitlements run 50 T.

When the "music" stops, there aren't enough "chairs" for everyone.
No amount of FDIC self insurance will cover the carnage when the "run" on the banks begin (around 2010).

Still sure it's a good idea to have "money in the bank"?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/fy2010_new_era/Summary_Tables2.pdf (broken link)
2009 budget outlays will be 3.9 T
GDP est. 14.240 T

Let's see - 1.5 T in circulation.
A federal budget of 3.9 T.
Golly jeepers!
A whole lot of "money in motion" will be needed to cover up that naked Emperor.
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Here
11,578 posts, read 13,948,459 times
Reputation: 7009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes/no View Post
"People are physically going through a slow death"

LOL! What a exageration. We have become a nation of spoiled babies. Karen should of saved some of her money when she was doing good instead of crying now.
+1

That about sums it up PERFECTLY
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,461,458 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I don't think Park understands the way we think. Keep trying, anyway, because you never know when it will pass over to that being. Truth is a good thing and many libs come to it one at a time.

I guess that folks like you believe that the guys at the unregulated AIG hedge fund have been acting like "good Americans" the whole time. I would be happy to let that company and their shareholders fail if it weren't for the extensive dependencies throughout the financial world that they were able to form which, if allowed to go 'poof', would make today's financial crunch so severe that it could cause enough economic hardship for a decade or more. It's the style of the irresponsible "cowboy capitalism" perpetrated by AIG that has been endangered by this round of corporate shenanigans, much to the Right Wing's sadness.

*Sigh* This is also a generational thing. It happened in the 1920s, again in the "Go Go" years of the 1960s stock market, then in the 1980s, then again in real estate and derivatives in the 2000s. "Freedom" tends to get itself in trouble on Wall Street, and the rest of the economy suffers. How many more rounds of this B.S. must the nation endure?
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:47 PM
 
1,599 posts, read 2,948,186 times
Reputation: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
This is sad. It is especially sad to me because this could be me. College educated, self sufficient, middle income... suddenly in line for unemployment. Oprah had a show on this yesterday. i haven't watched it yet.

Charities can not help all of these people. Maybe you can go to a food bank to eat this week, but how do you pay the mortgage or rent?

Saving money not being a good idea is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It is ALWAYS a good idea to have money in the bank for an emergency. What would you do if your income stopped tomorrow?
This could be almost any of us. How many paychecks could most of us miss without our financial picture unraveling at the seams? People like to talk big, but I am certain that most are as vulnerable as the next guy. Oh, if you read the article, it says that the food pantry there is running out of food, so I'm not sure where these families will eat.
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:48 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,897 posts, read 8,318,422 times
Reputation: 1911
Now, now. You are using facts and people don't like that especially when the facts don't conform to their world view.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:02 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,782,788 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
I agree about the greed. Its been at the core and heart of this whole cataclysmic slide downward and its still sliding. I disagree about the government. I'm not sure anyone can fix it. All government can do is print money and slow it a bit but the system is still broken and failed and can't fix itself.
I disagree. There is no problem so huge that no solution could be implemented. First thing to do is assess the situation and get to root causes, which I think in part jet graphics illustrates (even if the nihilistic conclusion is a bit pre mature). You cannot solve any problem while you are IN the soup. You have to be above it. That kind of objectivity is very hard to maintain on such emotionally charged topics as these.

Multiple solutions coming from many directions pointing at many aspects will have to take place. Policy changes are most definately necessary. Wasn't it 20 yrs ago the kremlin went bankrupt? They're still standing.

Parktwain-- I have an idea that perhaps your legislators might consider. Tent city situations must mean that so many evictions and foreclosures have been processed that a vacant housing glut situation is in effect. I understand the toxic assets still haven't been worked out for mortgage situations, however, those who have leased housing might be able to maintain some stability if timely adjustments are made.

My idea is to offer landlords (investors) with the proposition to lower prevailing rents in exchange for property tax offsets that span a bit beyond the duration of the leases. The pricetag on housing is an enormous part of the problem, and I think this straightfoward solution would be the best bang for the buck. Yes, they will not make much profit, but the loss already occurred if the property was over valued grossly. This would be a way to preserve the property valuation that remains and the stability of tenancy. The write off for depreciated value would happen on federal for investors if I'm not mistaken.

The idea came to me after recalling this article-- GE's strategy during the depression paid off.
http://www.elliottwave.com/features/...t.aspx?cat=pmp
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