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Odanny's responses to the original post in this thread illustrates the problem we're dealing with. His (or her) extreme and outlandish statements are not meant to constructively criticize. They are meant to inflame and to attempt to delegitimize the existence of the state of Israel. It's right out of the Hamas-Hezbollah-Iranian mullah textbook.
The basic obstacle to peace between the Arabs, including the Palestnian Arabs, and Israel, is the same one it has always been: the denial of Israel's right to exist. History has shown that when an Arab state accepted Israel as a neighbor, terms were quickly negotiated and a peace treaty was signed. When the "moderate" Palestinians decide to rid their society of their Hamas's, Islamic Jihads, etc. etc. then the necessary concessions will be made on both sides and there willl be two states coexisting in peace.
The "facts" you roll out didnt mention anything about the suffering and misery experienced day after day by Palestinians, why is that? Wow, you've been to Israel AND you roll out the right wing talking points on command, that makes you an uber-defender of all things Israel.
How about visiting Gaza? Get a chance to take in the sights there on your visit? Just curious.
Do you dispute any of the demonstrable facts that I listed in my previous post? Can you tell me that anything I stated is factually incorrect, despite your political desire to make them go away?
You can obfuscate and distract with rhetoric all you want, but the fact doesn't change that Israel has offered land for peace and taken risks for peace for the last 30 years. Where they have been met by willing partners such as Egypt and Jordan, they live in peace. It's only where there is no willing partner that violence and ugliness continues. Israel has never vowed to wipe anyone out or push anyone into the sea. No Israeli has ever strapped a bomb to a child and sent them into a crowded shopping mall to blow themselves up.
Arafat in past years and the current Hamas leaders of the Palestinians have made calculated decisions that mainly kept them in power at the expense of their constituents' well being. Most of the problems in Gaza can be laid right at the feet of the Palestinians, including infighting and continued attacks on Israel. You can wish it away and blow hot air around, but the facts and the history tell an objective story.
Do you dispute any of the demonstrable facts that I listed in my previous post? Can you tell me that anything I stated is factually incorrect, despite your political desire to make them go away?
You can obfuscate and distract with rhetoric all you want, but the fact doesn't change that Israel has offered land for peace and taken risks for peace for the last 30 years. Where they have been met by willing partners such as Egypt and Jordan, they live in peace. It's only where there is no willing partner that violence and ugliness continues. Israel has never vowed to wipe anyone out or push anyone into the sea. No Israeli has ever strapped a bomb to a child and sent them into a crowded shopping mall to blow themselves up.
Arafat in past years and the current Hamas leaders of the Palestinians have made calculated decisions that mainly kept them in power at the expense of their constituents' well being. Most of the problems in Gaza can be laid right at the feet of the Palestinians, including infighting and continued attacks on Israel. You can wish it away and blow hot air around, but the facts and the history tell an objective story.
The only one full of "hot air" is you. There is not one thing I have stated that is false. If you can prove otherwise, I invite you too. Your blind allegiance to all things Israel is the result of many things: The American media feeding you only one side of the story, your ignorance of Palestinians and their plight under Israel, and perhaps a multitude of other reasons to numerous to guess at. Israeli's dont blow themselves up, they dont have to, they have M1 tanks, Apache helicopters and F15 fighters. They can, and do, bomb from safely above. They kill many more civilians than suicide bombers.
Hamas was legally elected, largely in response to the same desperation that leads young men to blow themselves up. While your beliefs (whatever they may be, I dont really care anyway) cause you to ignore the plight of the Palestinian people and remain ignorant (like most Americans) to the reasons they suffer, the fact is these people are desperate and their situation worsens under increasingly violent, restrictive and unjust Israeli government policies that continues to shrink their land and limit their opportunities, often in retaliation that affects everyone for the actions of only a few.
Thats all fact, and not even arguable. The rest of the world is well aware of the Palestinian's plight. Americans, however, remain overwhelmingly ignorant of the facts.
Odanny's responses to the original post in this thread illustrates the problem we're dealing with. His (or her) extreme and outlandish statements are not meant to constructively criticize. They are meant to inflame and to attempt to delegitimize the existence of the state of Israel. It's right out of the Hamas-Hezbollah-Iranian mullah textbook.
You have no idea what you are babbling about, and a quick read of your posting confirms this
The only one full of "hot air" is you. There is not one thing I have stated that is false.
You refuse to tell me which of the points that I stated is part of "talking points?" You spew meaningless rhetoric but won't engage in a debate of the facts?
Again, did the Palestinians turn down a deal for a state and resume a violent uprising in 2000?
Do they strap bombs onto kids who then go out and kill innocent civilians?
Have the Israelis not made peace with Egypt and Jordan and returned territory to get recognition?
Does Hamas and Hezbollah have a sworn policy of pushing Israel into the sea and "killing the jews?'
Answer those questions if you dare to be intellectually honest.
I love America, I dont love its government. Its been hijacked. Ike predicted this in 1961.
You are indeed right. This administration, I am afraid, is taking full advantage of the crisis we face and will have taken over more control, taken away more individual rights than the last 6 administrations put together. I only hope the American public wakes up before it is too late. I suspect though that the pendulum will just swing the other way in 4 years and we will once again be at the mercy of a new administration.
The "facts" you roll out didnt mention anything about the suffering and misery experienced day after day by Palestinians, why is that? Wow, you've been to Israel AND you roll out the right wing talking points on command, that makes you an uber-defender of all things Israel.
How about visiting Gaza? Get a chance to take in the sights there on your visit? Just curious.
And what about the Arabs suffering at the hands of the Palestinian government, or lack of one.
You refuse to tell me which of the points that I stated is part of "talking points?" You spew meaningless rhetoric but won't engage in a debate of the facts?
Again, did the Palestinians turn down a deal for a state and resume a violent uprising in 2000? What "deal" was it that Israel tried to force onto them? Did it include returning any of their land seized in 1967 and 1973?
Do they strap bombs onto kids who then go out and kill innocent civilians? No they dont. Young men do strap bombs on themselves. Perhaps you would be better served if you asked yourself WHY.
Have the Israelis not made peace with Egypt and Jordan and returned territory to get recognition? Egypt and Jordan both listen to the United States. The United States is the only ally Israel has in the entire world, the rest of the world hates Israel. Just look at how they vote in the U.N., Israel and the U.S. are often stand alone.
Does Hamas and Hezbollah have a sworn policy of pushing Israel into the sea and "killing the jews?' Nope. But Israel has a sworn policy of killing and imprisoning Palestinians.
Answer those questions if you dare to be intellectually honest.
I've answered all of them. Hope you learned something
And right there, in four short words, is the crux of the entire matter. Hamas was legally elected, but is not now and has never been interested in any of the functions that government serves. And as it is, they only hold a bare majority in the Gaza parliament. When the people decide to do something about their own elected leaders--and vote them out the same way they were voted in--maybe something constructive can happen.
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