Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Here's a book. There will be a test at the end of the month.
Folks, lets simplify this. A test, any test, discriminates against people who are less intelligent and rewards people who are more intelligent. I'm not talking about black, brown, yellow or purple. I'm talking about intelligence.
To qualify to play basketball in the NBA, one must pass a physical test. The test is athletic ability and the ability to play the game of basketball. To claim that the test to play basketball in the NBA should be thrown out because it discriminates against people will less physical ability would be ludicrous.
If the physical test for NBA employment was thrown out because it had a disparate impact on certain groups of people, the league might well be just as competitive if every team was required to employ a certain percentage of people who were not good athletes. However, the quality of the basketball played by the NBA as a whole would suffer.
Companies are teams that compete in the game of life. Cities are teams. States are teams. The United States of America is the league in which we play. Achievement is how we keep score.
If all companies, States and Cities are required to employ the same percentage of less intelligent people, the teams may well remain competitive within the league but the quality of the game played in the United States of America as a whole would suffer.
Hey liberals, who would you rather have trying to save your house from burning down, a qualified person who can do the job, or someone who got the job through affirmitive action?
I finally had a chance to read up on this case. The bottom line, it was recognized a while ago that the written tests were flawed and unbalanced, so they should have been updated then. To deny these men that past the defunct test is unfair and discrimination based on the test that they took and passed pure and simple.
They did not create or write it, they just past it. The blame should be on the town and the creators of the test.
Oh give me a break...its a test...plain and simple.. What the hell was flawed? What was unbalanced? Not enough blacks were passing so they have to make it easier? That’s a bunch of BS! And I would be embarrassed to take that stance if I was Black.. I thought by your name you were proud to be black??
There should be NO blame period. These Black firemen are already fireman which means I guess they had to pass some sort of test to get into the fire dept. And I guess they are all certified EMT's and or Paramedics...right? so their not stupid...they just didn't do well on the test...big deal! So what! how many whites didn't pass the test? How many people period didn’t pass the test?
If the blacks are concerned about their image then they should ban together and form a study group and do better next time. This is why this country is completely going down the tubes with all the Politically Correct BS.
quote=Nietzschean Gangsta;8413058Good. That just proves the wisdom of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Those firefighters deserve their miserable lives. Nobody should care what happens to them. Jackson's and Sharpton's energy should be used for more worthwhile problems.
Yes, like instigating riots resulting in multiple murders. Ever hear of Freddy's Fashion Mart or Yankel Rosenbaum?
Quote:
Oh, and I bet that this reverse discrimination thingy gets ruled against or thrown out as the vast majority of them do. Why? Because the notion of reverse discrimination is garbage.
Any policy or decision based on race is racism. Look it up!
Or maybe you can just intuit it, seeing as you seem to believe that you channel Nietzche.
Thats liberalism for you..never the best man for the job. A nuclear reactor will work much better if the technicians are racially diverse, especially when 1/2 of them dont understand basic nuclear physics...yep, much better...
Or a plane forced to ditch in the Hudson River. I'm sure that all of those survivors had wished that they had had an affirmative action pilot.
It is very encouraging to see that only about 1 in 5 posts rule against the firefighters.
This helps prove that only approximately 1 in 5 of the general population is liberal.
This case could be a textbook example of the fallibility of liberal ideals and could illustrate that common sense still does have a considerable beachead in this nation.
A couple of questions please. Why do minorities need an easier test? Why can't everyone take the same standardized tests? We are all human beings with the ability to learn, why does there need to be two separate tests.
Hey, if you are interested and have the time to read this, I will give you a brief background of this issue.
Historically, there has been a lot of discrimination in the hiring and promotion practices around this country... I think that's not a very controversial statement. It just so happens that this case deals with firefighters; history tells us that police and firefighters have been very insular and hostile to the hiring and promotion of minorities (don't ask for a link, please... just do a cursory search on lawsuits against PDs and FDs). When the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, it included provisions against discrimination based on race, sex, color, etc. So outright individualized discrimination was banned and employers were subject to civil suits if they did so.
Ok. So many employers, in fear of being sued for discrimination, came up with standardized tests as a way of deciding promotions. However, there was a problem there as well. Many employers were using these facially neutral tests as a pre-text to only promote whites. So, for example... there might be a height requirement to become a police officer... well, guess what... that means most women and Latinos cannot qualify because they are just naturally shorter. Or, for a job that requires working with your hands, such as a mechanic, the test might include SAT type questions relating to reading comprehension and ability to recognize analogies. Those tests would invariably lead to Blacks and other minorities being ineligible for promotion even though they had the same performance as their white counterparts (whites were/are generally more educated). There are dozens of examples of these types of tests being administered across the country.
So, out of that came the doctrine of "disparate impact." That is to say, even though you administered the test equally to everyone, if there is a severe disparate impact on a racial group, you can be sued for discrimination. Now, if you are sued, you have to show that: a) the test was ACTUALLY relevant to the job at hand -- you can't test for calculus if the position is for maintenance manager, for example; and b) you have to show that there was no other available test that would have led to this non-discriminatory result. Now, I may have flipped the burden here as I don't quite remember... it may be that the plaintiff that sued for discrimination has to show that the test did not test actual skills needed for the job and also has to point to another equally valid test that does not produce the discriminatory result... but the point is the same.
Ok. So we now get to the city of Hartford and the Fire Department. They know the law of the land. They have a fairly diverse work force and now it's time for promotions. They decide to issue a test for promotions. They have various tests to choose from and they settle on Test A. They administer Test A. They get the results and they say to themselves... Oh Crud! Even though the minority members of the fire department are doing well and have received equally good reviews, NONE of them passed this test. All of the promotions will go to the white firefighters. So they call their HR and Legal and they are advised... guys, you will definetely be sued for for discrimination under the disparate impact theory. So, instead of promoting the white firefighters, they put it on hold and conduct hearings. In the course of the hearings, they hear evidence that neighboring counties and states are not using this particular test and the counties and states that have used Test B, C or D have not reached this result... their supervisory class is diverse.
So, what a conundrum... if they promote the white firefighters, they will be sued by the minority firefighters. If they don't promote the white firefighters, they will be sued by the white firefighters. So, they decide proactively that the test is flawed and they throw it out. They plan to administer Test B, C or D in the future. In the meantime, the white firefighters sue for racial discrimination.
This is not an easy case. But in my estimation, you have to allow the department to do what it did. If the department has a reasonable basis to believe that the test has a disparate impact that can be cured with a more valid test, it should not be forced to honor the results of the first test and set itself up for a lawsuit (which would make the promotions invalid anyway and eventually lead to quota-like mandates -- a much worse situation). Employers have to be given the ability to correct themselves in mid-stream if they realize that they screwed up in the type of test that was administered. I can't see the SC ruling any other way... of course, the very conservative bloc of the SC will probably rule against the city as they hate any type of race consciousness in decision-making but short of doing away with the protections of the Civil Rights Act, which is a law passed by Congress, I think the white firefighters will lose this case.
It is very encouraging to see that only about 1 in 5 posts rule against the firefighters.
This helps prove that only approximately 1 in 5 of the general population is liberal.
This case could be a textbook example of the fallibility of liberal ideals and could illustrate that common sense still does have a considerable beachead in this nation.
It certainly appears this way. But then why is the Maine stream media so Liberal? Why is our public school system so liberal? Why is holywood, the music industry, our governement, so Liberal?
I often wonder if people are so cought up in the political Correctness that they just can't bring themselves to "openly" express their real views...but then I see who is running this country into the ground!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
