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I'm troubled by your first line that includes "possible acts" because what this means is that you're willing to torture people for their...thoughts?
For clarification I meant those that have not been carried out yet. Please don't try and put words in mouth as you know exactly what I mean. If "Abdul" is running in known circles with other terrorists his intent is quite clear.
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Both crimes you describe are the same.
That could possibly be the most ridiculous thing I've seen anyone posted on this or any other forum .
[Waterboarding] has always been illegal, and everyone has always known it to be illegal.
But I suppose cutting off heads, blowing up people with bombs strapped to you or in a vehicle, and flying planes into buildings are just fine?
This is not a "legal" issue....this is a war, not even being fought against a country or a conventional uniformed army but rather a terrorist force that hides behind civilians, where the stakes are the lives of millions of Americans. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about whether some court thought that an American cop was guilty of something because of using waterboarding. If it works, and it can save American lives from those who want to kill, then it's fine with me.
Some of you live in some naive fantasy land where our enemies are abiding by conventions and treaties. They are not. They are torturing, killing, cutting off heads, and forcing civilians to swan dive off 100 story buildings. They deserve no mercy and no quarter.
I think you need to read up on the Geneva Convention. What don't you understand about the term "Prisoner of War?"
By the way, the very fact that he was waterboarded 183 times is more than enough proof that it doesn't work. That's just common sense. If someone was torturing me, I'd probably admit to killing JFK.
Now that I just read your post again, I have another question. If someone believes that flying a plane into a building and suicide bombings are heroic acts and is willing to sacrifice his life to take down his enemies, how can you possibly believe torture will be effective?
They are torturing, killing, cutting off heads, and forcing civilians to swan dive off 100 story buildings. They deserve no mercy and no quarter.
I wasn't aware there was 100 story buildings in Afghanistan... oh wait I see what you mean. You're referring to the WTC, at first I though youwere referring to the happenings inside the country they reside. I Gotcha.
I think you need to read up on the Geneva Convention. What don't you understand about the term "Prisoner of War?"
Have you read any of the Geneva Convention treaties? Terror groups do not qualify for POW coverage and do not meet the criteria, as the Bush administration correctly determined. I love when people mention things they don't understand and are incorrect about. It's not I that doesn't understand.
Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm - broken link)
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
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Originally Posted by justNancy
By the way, the very fact that he was waterboarded 183 times is more than enough proof that it doesn't work.
OK...you might want to have that argument with former CIA Director Michael Hayden and the others who have stated publicly that attacks were stopped and people caught as a direct result of the interrogation tactics used on folks such as KSM.
This is a big myth perpetrated by the left to provide them cover for their views. If you check into it, when the Obama administration released and declassified the memos and documents on the interrogation tactics, they also redacted and failed to release the attendant results of those interrogations and tactics. Those who were there and in the know have stated that the results were concrete and had specific positive impacts.
Now that I just read your post again, I have another question. If someone believes that flying a plane into a building and suicide bombings are heroic acts and is willing to sacrifice his life to take down his enemies, how can you possibly believe torture will be effective?
Because the RESULTS and FACTS say so. Sorry that it's an inconvenient truth for you, but we're talking about waterboarding and interrogation techniques...not torture...and it worked...FACT.
I am sure Nick Berg woudln't have minded them waterboarding him over cutting his head off.
I have no sympathy for the idiots who were waterboarded.
If you DO THE CRIME, then be ready to DO THE TIME!
This world is not a utopian society - libs need to get used to the fact that there is never going to be Utopia on earth.
This world is not about "Free to be, You and me" it's never going to happen.
It's about chess, not checkers!
Kill or be killed.
Wake up!
OK, what EXACTLY is their crime? Thinking badly about America? If these people killed people, why haven't they been tried and convicted of these crimes? Are you so convinced of their guilt that you would treat them the same way you accuse them of treating others? How is that the high road? Or is the high road not an option since you're so convinced a better society (utopian) is not possible? Why don't we just kill ourselves now and spare our progeny of a terrible future?
"Kill or be killed?" The world you live in is a prison of the mind and heart.
For clarification I meant those that have not been carried out yet. Please don't try and put words in mouth as you know exactly what I mean. If "Abdul" is running in known circles with other terrorists his intent is quite clear.
That could possibly be the most ridiculous thing I've seen anyone posted on this or any other forum .
I'm sorry you are so blind about how committing atrocities in response to atrocities committed is not an equal action.
And don't ever argue by saying "you know exactly what I mean". I don't know you from anybody and the only thing I have to draw on is your words. Yet, you only buried yourself further with your response! Your last sentence clearly implies that Abdul should be tortured because he is guilty of thought crimes. You didn't say he had to have committed any terrorist acts, all he had to do was to be associated with other terrorists. Guilt by association? That's the justification for torture?
Sorry, I don't buy it. It's wrong. It will always be wrong.
Have you read any of the Geneva Convention treaties? Terror groups do not qualify for POW coverage and do not meet the criteria, as the Bush administration correctly determined. I love when people mention things they don't understand and are incorrect about.
And as I've said at least five times, this has nothing to do with the Geneva Conventions, but with the UN Convention Against Torture, which the Constitution regards as the supreme law of the land, on a par with itself. And that treaty does not make the distinctions that the Geneva Convention does. Nice try.
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