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Old 04-28-2009, 08:40 AM
 
37,944 posts, read 24,377,956 times
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Republican opponents of the controversial "hate crimes" legislation that passed the House Judiciary Committee today claim Democratic supporters of the measure are not being clear about who exactly will receive special protections under the bill.
King offered an amendment that would have barred pedophiles from receiving special protection under the hate crimes bill. The amendment was defeated on a party-line vote 13-10. Congresswoman Baldwin said that amendment was "unnecessary and inflammatory."
'hate crimes': the ultimate in liberal feel-good legislation.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
19,964 posts, read 20,718,199 times
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"Hate crime" laws are unjust. Motivation should be irrelevant. We're supposed to have the freedom to think and say whatever we want in this country - it's only actions that are punishable. The punishment for the action shouldn't have anything to do with why you did it.

For instance - if I punch someone in the face, the crime is assault. It doesn't matter why I punched them. Maybe I punched them because they cut in front of me at the grocery store, or maybe I punched them because of their skin color. Regardless of why, the action was the same, the crime was the same, the result of my action was the same... Why does my motivation for the crime matter? I'm allowed to think whatever I want, right?
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:09 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 13,862,588 times
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Originally Posted by swagger View Post
"Hate crime" laws are unjust. Motivation should be irrelevant. We're supposed to have the freedom to think and say whatever we want in this country - it's only actions that are punishable. The punishment for the action shouldn't have anything to do with why you did it.

For instance - if I punch someone in the face, the crime is assault. It doesn't matter why I punched them. Maybe I punched them because they cut in front of me at the grocery store, or maybe I punched them because of their skin color. Regardless of why, the action was the same, the crime was the same, the result of my action was the same... Why does my motivation for the crime matter? I'm allowed to think whatever I want, right?


Probably not in the brave new Bamworld. Just reading an op ed yesterday noting how much "uneasiness" there is now among the public about all the "changes" being made to our country, not for the better. The journalist mentioning how palpable the dread and fear is among Americans finally waking up to what is happening to their world around them.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,831 posts, read 2,239,437 times
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Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
'hate crimes': the ultimate in liberal feel-good legislation.

The Democrats are wrong on this. If the bill would "add gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, and disability to the list of protected categories under federal hate crimes law." it needs to do it in a way that does not grant protection or empowerment to criminals, like pedophiles. It is the Democrats not the Republicans who are behaving in an inflammatory way, by wanting to argue about such a simple and reasonable change to the bill.

Having said that, the article does not say "Dems push 'hate crimes' legislation granting special protections to pedophiles" it just says they're arguing over a Republican request for additional language they feel is unnecessary.

The concept of "hate crimes" itself is not at issue, as it is law, and has stood up to numerous court tests. I'm not suggesting it is wise or good. Many laws are not. It is an unfortunate solution to an even more unfortunate problem.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
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It does not specifically grant protection to pedophiles. I don't see how it could grant any protection to people with ILLEGAL (bestiality, pedophilia) sexual "orientations".
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:34 AM
 
37,944 posts, read 24,377,956 times
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Originally Posted by swagger View Post
For instance - if I punch someone in the face, the crime is assault. It doesn't matter why I punched them. Maybe I punched them because they cut in front of me at the grocery store, or maybe I punched them because of their skin color. Regardless of why, the action was the same, the crime was the same, the result of my action was the same... Why does my motivation for the crime matter? I'm allowed to think whatever I want, right?
apparently not. rather, what you're thinking or saying at the time the punch is administered will be punished, rather than the action.

thoughtcrimes might be a more accurate terminology.

Hate Crimes Bill Protects Cross-Dressers and Pedophiles but Not Veterans or Grandmas - Standard Newswire
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:36 AM
 
37,944 posts, read 24,377,956 times
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Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
Having said that, the article does not say "Dems push 'hate crimes' legislation granting special protections to pedophiles" it just says they're arguing over a Republican request for additional language they feel is unnecessary.
are special protections granted to pedophiles in this legislation that is being pushed by democrats? yes or no.

the arguing over the republican amendment that was offered is over and done, it was rejected on a party line vote.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:40 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,632 posts, read 17,663,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
are special protections granted to pedophiles in this legislation that is being pushed by democrats? yes or no.

the arguing over the republican amendment that was offered is over and done, it was rejected on a party line vote.
No, they are not.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:41 AM
 
6,898 posts, read 7,061,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger;8550853[B
]"Hate crime" laws are unjust. Motivation should be irrelevant. We're supposed to have the freedom to think and say whatever we want in this country - it's only actions that are punishable. The punishment for the action shouldn't have anything to do with why you did it.[/b]

For instance - if I punch someone in the face, the crime is assault. It doesn't matter why I punched them. Maybe I punched them because they cut in front of me at the grocery store, or maybe I punched them because of their skin color. Regardless of why, the action was the same, the crime was the same, the result of my action was the same... Why does my motivation for the crime matter? I'm allowed to think whatever I want, right?
This bolded statement in a perfect world would be true. But given today society and how there are "hate crimes" still occuring as recent as 2009. Gays are hung from a cross, black man tied to the back of a truck and dragged to death, burning cross and swastikas on a house to intimidate. Hate crime laws are still needed today because some local laws can not be trusted....unfortunately.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,632 posts, read 17,663,822 times
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I know someone here in NY that was 100% gay bashed. Jumped because he was gay. It was hard enough to get the police to even press charges. The local PD actually said "well, he thought that he propositioned him".

He ended up not pursuing the hate crime angle of the attack, but was prepared to if the police did not press assault charges.
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