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Totally agree with the OP!!! A nation divided is easily controlled. As long as we continue bickering over R&D so called issues, the gov. doesn't have to worry about us rising up and demanding REAL CHANGE!!! We do not have two parties, we have one government with two faces. As the OP stated, politicians are only looking out for their own political backside and continued corruption and not looking out for our best interests.
The question is: what movement do we get behind and mobilize? And not end up running in to another smoke screen?
I do not see my freedoms being eroded by government. What, exactly, have you lost to government?
I have lost my job to government interaction, setting contractor labor laws.
I have lost parts of my paycheck to government interaction, via taxes and regulation.
I have lost my personal liberty of putting drugs I choose into my body.
I have lost my personal liberty to own guns in self defense.
I many lost their personal property, taken to jail because they wanted to stay in their homes when they werent even effected by the hurriane and food and water because of FEMA intereaction in New Orleans.
How about free speech and have been restricted in free speech zones in washington DC which I have been effected by.
I was effected by the bailouts of government interaction just like everyone else and now each person owes more money in debt.
The national debt effects us when our purchasing power of the dollar is low and we can't by as much as it use too.
I think that is enough examples of eroded freedoms and other over extension of government and how can effect me directly.
I have lost my job to government interaction, setting contractor labor laws.
I have lost parts of my paycheck to government interaction, via taxes and regulation.
I have lost my personal liberty of putting drugs I choose into my body.
I have lost my personal liberty to own guns in self defense.
I many lost their personal property, taken to jail because they wanted to stay in their homes when they werent even effected by the hurriane and food and water because of FEMA intereaction in New Orleans.
How about free speech and have been restricted in free speech zones in washington DC which I have been effected by.
I was effected by the bailouts of government interaction just like everyone else and now each person owes more money in debt.
The national debt effects us when our purchasing power of the dollar is low and we can't by as much as it use too.
I think that is enough examples of eroded freedoms and other over extension of government and how can effect me directly.
Agreed. If I sat down and made a list of freedoms that have been eroded by the government (and not just the feds) it would be quite extensive.
Republicans say they are "conservative" yet create the biggest government we have seen. Ignore civil liberties and borrow money until we are completely broke. They created more social programs then Bill Clinton and somehow they expect us to listen to them come 2012. You can't call yourself a conservative until you understand the constitution, personal and economic liberty and defend them your entire political career. Rush, Steele, Powel, Chaney, Bush, etc are only a distraction by those who want further divide in a republican party. If you want people to come to the republican party promote freedom, freedom does not divide us it unites us.
Democrats you supported the war, you spent money on the war, you supported george bush while the whole time complained about him only to fund iraq and other wars. You also voted and agreed with torture. You have a new president who is bringing "Change" while we still have war, more troops and even more funding. You bombed Iraq and had somila, bosnia with Clinton did those soldiers die for another bad foriegn policy. We also now have more spending and debt then even with george bush. Yet you sit there and tell us you want bigger government and more social programs. Where is the money going to come from? If your going to say george bush gave you this mess then you dont do the same thing george bush was doing. After all george bush was a idiot. Are you saying you are repeating george bush's misakes to get us out of this mess?
Here is what I see, republicans and democrats see big government as the solution to all the problems. We have big government under Bush, bigger government under Obama and the same idiots in congress for the last 20 years.
You want change? Vote for economic liberty and personal liberty.
When your 11 trillion in debt, in a war and people are under economic stress you dont go into debt more, expand the war and you dont over tax.
The more power washington has the less freedom you have.
Most Democrats voted against the war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution#Passage Democrats were not involved in the torture and it's not clear at all they were advised that we were torturing prisoners. And it's a minority of Democrats pushing to get us out of Iraq faster.
This is what you fail to mention.
The answer is to improve the Democratic Party by getting rid of bad Democrats who vote with the rotten-to-the-core GOPers, not pie-in-the-sky dreams of third party Libertarian candidates.
Most Democrats voted against the war. Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Democrats were not involved in the torture and it's not clear at all they were advised that we were torturing prisoners. And it's a minority of Democrats pushing to get us out of Iraq faster.
This is what you fail to mention.
The answer is to improve the Democratic Party by getting rid of bad Democrats who vote with the rotten-to-the-core GOPers, not pie-in-the-sky dreams of third party Libertarian candidates.
Your kiding me right.
Democrats
82 in house yes
29 in the senate yes
126 in house no
21 in the senate no
Democrats
146 no's
111 yes that is alot of rotten to the core democrats my friend.
Also lets remember the patriot act of which a large amount of democrats voted for 194 voted for.
I think what they say and what the do are to different things and talk about for talking points and politcal gain nothing to do with actual good intentions.
They were full aware of the torturing of prisoners and so often they reminded us about it and george bush about it and then supported most new legislation to increase spending onthe war and even to extend the patriot act again in 2006. I think if you look at my original OP the point is they are spending more and borrowing more and increasing the spending for the war. So while I think the illuison is that you believe they are somehow innocent and less responsible then the republicans is just stupid. What are they doing now that is anymore different then watch bush and the republicans were doing.
I think the faster we can get past the us/them, Dem/Rep thing and realize all politicans are pretty much the same regardless of party affilitaion, we can begin to turn this country around.
Your kiding me right.
Democrats
82 in house yes
29 in the senate yes
126 in house no
21 in the senate no
Democrats
146 no's
111 yes that is alot of rotten to the core democrats my friend.
Also lets remember the patriot act of which a large amount of democrats voted for 194 voted for.
I think what they say and what the do are to different things and talk about for talking points and politcal gain nothing to do with actual good intentions.
They were full aware of the torturing of prisoners and so often they reminded us about it and george bush about it and then supported most new legislation to increase spending onthe war and even to extend the patriot act again in 2006. I think if you look at my original OP the point is they are spending more and borrowing more and increasing the spending for the war. So while I think the illuison is that you believe they are somehow innocent and less responsible then the republicans is just stupid. What are they doing now that is anymore different then watch bush and the republicans were doing.
What do you mean I'm kidding??? You just added the votes up and more Democrats voted against the war than voted for it.....AS I SAID.
The GOP on the other hand voted 99% for it.
And which Patriot Act vote are you referring to? There was more than one version over the years.
Most Democrats voted against the later Patriot Act type legislation.
Here again Dems are providing the only pushback on Civil Liberties as witnessed by these votes were the majority voted the right course. ( Notice also how utterly devoid of principles the GOP is)
To support the new Bush-supported FISA law:
GOP - 48-0
Dems - 12-36
The Protect America Act:
GOP - 44-0
Dems - 20-28
The Military Commissions Act: (Took away Habeus Corpus rights)
GOP - 53-0
Dems - 12-34
Last edited by padcrasher; 05-28-2009 at 09:49 AM..
You know how I can tell I'm dealing with fake Libertarians?
Because they give no credit to Dems when most of them vote in support of civil liberties as noted above.
The fake Libertarians come out of the wood work when Dems are in charge to score political points. They don't give a damn about liberties when the GOP is in control nor do they give any credit to good Dems ever.
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