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Old 08-27-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,437,022 times
Reputation: 495

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It's easy to point a finger at insurance companies and make them the bad guys.....it's an essential role that authors and writers count on them to play, in books, TV scripts and movies.

The truth is though, there's too much fiction being debated and not enough non-fiction.

Here are some quotes taken from article in U.S. News & World Report (a link to which is at the bottom):

Some critics would like to see a healthcare sector that's entirely nonprofit, but most Americans seem comfortable with the existing system of for-profit healthcare providers, at least at some levels. Otherwise, the majority of Americans wouldn't say they're satisfied with their existing coverage, and there wouldn't be so much discomfort over the idea of government-funded healthcare. So if you're comfortable with the profit motive, the next step is to determine a fair profit margin for companies in the healthcare industry. This is where there's bad news for Obama, Waxman, et al.


Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin. Right behind that were healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows).


Among the large, for-profit health insurers, profit margins line up with the industry as a whole. UnitedHealthGroup, the biggest health insurer, had a 4.1 percent profit margin over the past 12 months. WellPoint, the next biggest, had a 4 percent profit margin. Aetna, Cigna and Humana came in below that.


Health insurers turn out to be underperformers compared with the other parts of the healthcare sector. Pharmaceutical companies have a profit margin of 16.4 percent—seventh highest of the 215 industries that Morningstar tracks. Others segments of healthcare with margins well above the median include healthcare information (9.4 percent), home healthcare firms (8.5 percent), medical labs (8.2 percent), and generic drugmakers (6.5 percent).


To give a clearer picture of which healthcare firms are earning the most, I've compiled some data from Capital IQ showing net profit margins over the past 12 months for a number of well-known companies.
  • Amgen (biotechnology): Profit margin, 30.6 percent
  • Gilead Sciences (biotechnology): 37.6 percent
  • Celgene Corp. (biotechnology): 11.9 percent
  • Johnson & Johnson (drug manufacturer): 20.8 percent
  • Pfizer (drug manufacturer): 16.3 percent
  • GlaxoSmithKline (drug manufacturer): 17.4 percent
  • Unitedhealth Group (healthcare plans): 4.1 percent
  • WellPoint (healthcare plans): 4 percent
  • Aetna (healthcare plans): 3.9 percent
  • MedcoHealth Solutions (healthcare services): 2.1 percent
  • Express Scripts (healthcare services): 3.7 percent
  • Quest Diagnostics (healthcare services): 8.7 percent
  • Medtronic (medical equipment): 14.9 percent
  • Baxter International (medical equipment): 17.5 percent
  • Covidien (medical equipment): 12.3 percent
Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains - Rick Newman (usnews.com)
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
They won't go after big pharma..they already made their deals.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,792,249 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno3314 View Post
It's easy to point a finger at insurance companies and make them the bad guys.....it's an essential role that authors and writers count on them to play, in books, TV scripts and movies.

The truth is though, there's too much fiction being debated and not enough non-fiction.

Here are some quotes taken from article in U.S. News & World Report (a link to which is at the bottom):

Some critics would like to see a healthcare sector that's entirely nonprofit, but most Americans seem comfortable with the existing system of for-profit healthcare providers, at least at some levels. Otherwise, the majority of Americans wouldn't say they're satisfied with their existing coverage, and there wouldn't be so much discomfort over the idea of government-funded healthcare. So if you're comfortable with the profit motive, the next step is to determine a fair profit margin for companies in the healthcare industry. This is where there's bad news for Obama, Waxman, et al.


Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin. Right behind that were healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows).


Among the large, for-profit health insurers, profit margins line up with the industry as a whole. UnitedHealthGroup, the biggest health insurer, had a 4.1 percent profit margin over the past 12 months. WellPoint, the next biggest, had a 4 percent profit margin. Aetna, Cigna and Humana came in below that.


Health insurers turn out to be underperformers compared with the other parts of the healthcare sector. Pharmaceutical companies have a profit margin of 16.4 percent—seventh highest of the 215 industries that Morningstar tracks. Others segments of healthcare with margins well above the median include healthcare information (9.4 percent), home healthcare firms (8.5 percent), medical labs (8.2 percent), and generic drugmakers (6.5 percent).


To give a clearer picture of which healthcare firms are earning the most, I've compiled some data from Capital IQ showing net profit margins over the past 12 months for a number of well-known companies.
  • Amgen (biotechnology): Profit margin, 30.6 percent
  • Gilead Sciences (biotechnology): 37.6 percent
  • Celgene Corp. (biotechnology): 11.9 percent
  • Johnson & Johnson (drug manufacturer): 20.8 percent
  • Pfizer (drug manufacturer): 16.3 percent
  • GlaxoSmithKline (drug manufacturer): 17.4 percent
  • Unitedhealth Group (healthcare plans): 4.1 percent
  • WellPoint (healthcare plans): 4 percent
  • Aetna (healthcare plans): 3.9 percent
  • MedcoHealth Solutions (healthcare services): 2.1 percent
  • Express Scripts (healthcare services): 3.7 percent
  • Quest Diagnostics (healthcare services): 8.7 percent
  • Medtronic (medical equipment): 14.9 percent
  • Baxter International (medical equipment): 17.5 percent
  • Covidien (medical equipment): 12.3 percent
Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains - Rick Newman (usnews.com)

Even so, you shouldn't deny payment of someone's treatment for the sake of profit.
Rescission is wrong in most cases.


YouTube - Fight back against health insurance lies

A woman in this video told a health insurance worker that she would die if she didn't receive her treatment and the woman replied,"Ok."
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
This country is run by corporate interests. Corporations would rather lay off people than cut back their dividend or cut back their exec bonuses.

Something to think about....
Insurance is sky high.
Drugs are sky high.

Why doesn't the government put some regulation in place (or find out why current regulation isn't working) ? Why is government thinking they'll just subsidize current insurance rates ? This does not stop the insurers and big pharma from raising their prices even more.

In the end it is us who are paying and they will keep taxing for each increase.
The US will end up imploding from its debt and the multi-nationals will just leave for another country and set up HQ there.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,697 posts, read 6,450,481 times
Reputation: 5047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno3314 View Post
The truth is though, there's too much fiction being debated and not enough non-fiction.

Here are some quotes taken from article in U.S. News & World Report (a link to which is at the bottom):
The numbers given in the article may be exactly correct - and I'm not saying they aren't. But the numbers given are for the last 12 months. I'm not sure, given the economic upheaval over the last 12 months, that we can take any numbers for any business during that time and make any conclusions. To get a more accurate picture, I think we'd need the numbers from the last several years.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,059,627 times
Reputation: 4125
I don't see why anyone should care about the social good, if those who don't have health care and can't pay their bills don't want a social health care option then let them go bankrupt. I work hard and pay for mine, why should I care about anyone else?
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,437,022 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
They won't go after big pharma..they already made their deals.
You didn't read the article, huh?

A quote from it:

The big money, in other words, isn't in the insurance industry. If it's anywhere, it's in the pharmaceutical industry. But the Obamanauts appear to have reached a kind of détente with Big Pharma in exchange for that industry's tepid support for some kind of reform. So Obama and his foot soldiers need to look elsewhere for black hats.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Orrin Hatch made a deal with them in July. They get 12 year exclusive use of their named drugs over generic.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,437,022 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
Even so, you shouldn't deny payment of someone's treatment for the sake of profit.

Whom denied who's treatment and how do you know it was to make more profit? Are you talking about an HMO or an insurance company?

The people that work in the claims department at the home office of an insurance company, are just like you and I. They pay claims unless there's a problem when there is, 99% of the time a phone call clears up the problem. I've had claims people go out of their way to help policyholders if they can in any way.....why, because they're just like you and me and want to help the person on the other end of the line if there's a way to, without doing something wrong.

They all work on salary....they don't get bonuses for denying coverage as much as possible....as a matter of fact it's quite the opposite. If they deny a claim they had no reason to and the policyholder files a complaint with their states DOI or even worse, sues the insurer, the person responsible for making the error might get fired.

Insurers can't do for one what they don't do for another either in underwriting or paying claims, that's discrimination.....the state they're in audits them for any irregularities.

The execs you hear about getting big bonuses are because of sales and sales volume....that's how they make profit and not by denying claims, that's how they get sued. In order to increase sales volume, they need to compete with others in the region they market their products in, by having the best plan at the lowest price. They don't make more profit by issuing rate increases (that makes them lose business). Their competition forces them to minimize their profit so maintain a high volume of sales and make money that way.

Insurers have to make a small percentage of profit on a large amount of business to stay in business. They can't make a large percentage on a smaller amount of business because that business pays monthly and there's no reason for them to continue paying if they can get the same thing elsewhere for less. The only other reason they may not leave, is if they're seriously ill and in that case, they're putting big claims.

Rescission is wrong in most cases.

A recision is something that is very carefully undertaken by an insurer....they don't do it just to get out of paying a big claim. Most insurers use re-insurance any way and in that case won't even be the ones shelling out the money on a large claim. A recision is probably going to result in the person getting the recision, filing a complaint with the state DOI and if that gets them no satisfaction, a lawsuit. That being the case, if a recision is wrong the insurer will have to not only pay the claims any way but, now also the attorney fees both their own and the plaintiffs), possibly punitive damages if the case goes to court and/or possibly penalties or probation from the state's DOI.


YouTube - Fight back against health insurance lies

Sorry, I can't view your YouTube video, it makes my old computer crash so, I don't know what it's about.

A woman in this video told a health insurance worker that she would die if she didn't receive her treatment and the woman replied,"Ok."
Well, I can't see it like I mentioned but, what do you mean by an insurance worker....what kind of worker......I don't know the circumstances.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,437,022 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
This country is run by corporate interests. Corporations would rather lay off people than cut back their dividend or cut back their exec bonuses.

A corporation can be formed either for profit or non-profit....non-profit organizations (NPO's) are becoming a huge trend (not to be confused with tax-exempt status). I don't know if laying off vs.cutting dividends is necessarily true in a for profit corporation that has to answer to stockholders.....sometimes dividends are insignificant and the stockholders own shares expecting growth and not a dividend payment. Depending upon the size of the corporation, it must have execs with the appropriate skills to run it and keep it in the black. They have to compete with other corporations for those execs by paying competitive salaries, otherwise they'll leave and who they'll get to replace them at the lower pay, may not be qualified to run the corporation and end up making matters worse.

Something to think about....
Insurance is sky high.
Drugs are sky high.

What the article is pointing out is that insurance is sky high because drugs and other health care that it pay claims to is sky high. They need to regulate the providers in some way....how, I don't know but, regulating insurance only drives rates higher because when it's done it's to force insurers to take on more risk, which only raises rates to cover that risk.

Why doesn't the government put some regulation in place (or find out why current regulation isn't working) ? Why is government thinking they'll just subsidize current insurance rates ? This does not stop the insurers and big pharma from raising their prices even more.

Government only subsidizes insurance companies when it's not possible to insure a specific risk and stay in business doing it....like Medicaid (sometimes).

Big Pharma raises it's rates because big government has protected them with 17 year pantents plus 3 additional years for FDA approval making it a total of 20 years from the date of first applyiong for FDA approval on a new drug. Insurance companies raise rates to cover the increase cost of claims...not to make profit. Raising rates makes them lose business.....their profit margin was already figured into their rates initially.

In the end it is us who are paying and they will keep taxing for each increase.
The US will end up imploding from its debt and the multi-nationals will just leave for another country and set up HQ there.
I don't follow you on this part....not sure what you mean?
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