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You do not have a say, abortion is legal lest we forget. Why don't you have a say to demand sex ed in our schools to reduce the need for abortion. Why don't you have a say to promote health reform so pregnant women and then their babies get free health care. Why don't you have a say to demand the pro-life organizations get real about birth control. I respect people that feel strongly about this issue regardless which side you fall, but I cannot respect anyone who only sees this as a single issue. It is not, and until we start focusing on the bigger picture, abortion rates are not going to decrease, which is what everyone wants.
Then according to this brilliant logic, no one had a say speaking against slavery prior to the civil war. Or speaking against discrimination in the 1950s.
I keep on noticing that you mention 6-7 month fetus when it comes to abortion. You consider a 6-7 month fetus viable.
How do you feel about abortion in the first trimester or first 3 months? Thanks. I hope we can have another civil debate.
Good, and you? I think that's a much more gray area. I'm not a fan of Obama but I agree with him when I say that's above my pay grade. I believe strongly that abortion past the point of viability with the exception of the mothers life being in serious danger is a no-brainer.
A lot of pro-choice folks would say that abortion is OK all the way up to one day before the baby is born. But if the mother were to shoot the baby the day the baby was born, then this is murder. IMO this is completely idiotic logic and condones murdering a baby. If you agree that one day before the baby is born is wrong, then the question becomes: How far from birth is OK?
Pharmacists refuse to prescribe or dispense birth control pills (http://www.prevention.com/cda/article/access-denied/a9a466263d803110VgnVCM20000012281eac____/health/healthy.living.centers/ob.gyn.health/ - broken link)
Also statistically poor women and girls have a higher number of abortions than better-off women because they dont have easy access to birth control.
I dont see any of you anti-choicers talking about your ideas for making birth control cheap and accessible for poor women. Wonder why not?
First of all the correct term is Pro-Lifers. If you want to use an idiotic and biased term them I will as well and assume that you are a Pro-Deather.
Secondly, I didn't realize BC was expensive? What does a condom cost? 50 cents? My wife's BC prescription is $10 a month. How many of these poor women have cable TV?
Would it be better to live in a society where a woman must resort to EXTREME measures such as "back-alley" abortions, self-induced miscarrages, trips to foreign countries, ect? Abortions will never stop and the consequences of outlawing abortions would be horrendous at best.
You will never change anyone's mind on the "pro life" side with this debate. So, some women who believe it's okay to murder a baby will die while attempting to murder the child? And your point is...?
Few abortions are performed because of "rape, incest or health of the mother". In the US, they are used as birth control. I know ONE woman who did it because the baby's health was "poor"... a sad excuse, but a sad story. The others were ALL birth control/convenience.
I believe that all women wanting to have an abortion should receive adoption counseling, in addition to the murder counseling (now referred to as "family planning"). If they weren't raped, a victim of incest or about to die (pretty irresponsible to get pregnant knowing you'll DIE if you have to give birth!) then they should also be forced to look at what comes out. People keep kidney stones all the time... how about offering them an arm or a leg as a souvenir, maybe a 4d snapshot of the face in utero minutes before the procedure?
Good, and you? I think that's a much more gray area. I'm not a fan of Obama but I agree with him when I say that's above my pay grade. I believe strongly that abortion past the point of viability with the exception of the mothers life being in serious danger is a no-brainer.
A lot of pro-choice folks would say that abortion is OK all the way up to one day before the baby is born. But if the mother were to shoot the baby the day the baby was born, then this is murder. IMO this is completely idiotic logic and condones murdering a baby. If you agree that one day before the baby is born is wrong, then the question becomes: How far from birth is OK?
I am in class. So I am BORED. That is how I am doing.
But all things aside I agree. I am mostly ok with abortion during the first trimester. I do not think abortion should be done after 4 or 5 months unless the mothers life is in danger. We can find common ground there. I am also for abortion if the woman was raped.
I do not think it is ok to say abortion is ok before the day the fetus is born.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdevelop2
First of all the correct term is Pro-Lifers. If you want to use an idiotic and biased term them I will as well and assume that you are a Pro-Deather.
Secondly, I didn't realize BC was expensive? What does a condom cost? 50 cents? My wife's BC prescription is $10 a month. How many of these poor women have cable TV?
Do you have good insurance? I am fortunate enough to be covered by my fathers health care still by Chrysler and my birth control is eleven dollars each time. However, without insurance, it would be much more expensive. I am not sure how much but I do believe she told me $120 last time. There are some people who cannot afford that. I am grateful that I have decent health insurance for now.
I am in class. So I am BORED. That is how I am doing.
But all things aside I agree. I am mostly ok with abortion during the first trimester. I do not think abortion should be done after 4 or 5 months unless the mothers life is in danger. We can find common ground there. I am also for abortion if the woman was raped.
I do not think it is ok to say abortion is ok before the day the fetus is born.
Do you have good insurance? I am fortunate enough to be covered by my fathers health care still by Chrysler and my birth control is eleven dollars each time. However, without insurance, it would be much more expensive. I am not sure how much but I do believe she told me $120 last time. There are some people who cannot afford that. I am grateful that I have decent health insurance for now.
This is why I would be free birth control.
I would love to see legislation outlawing abortion after the point of viability and that provided BC free of charge to anyone under a certain income level. The legislation should also provide insurance for children born to people under a certain income level.
I would love to see legislation outlawing abortion after the point of viability and that provided BC free of charge to anyone under a certain income level. The legislation should also provide insurance for children born to people under a certain income level.
What are you in class for?
Ironically, I have to go an evolution lecture for religion. BUT before anyone goes nuts on me here about liberal brainwashing in college, I also went to Church for class (which I enjoyed A LOT). We get to learn about evolution and religious theories.
Yeah. I think for me, ideally-
1) Free birth control from government-The tax money that is being used on illegal immigrants and other useless programs can be used to protect our citizens from unwanted pregnancy.
2) Sex ed-show the students what having a baby before commitment can do. Calculate the costs. Show them the grim reality that their boyfriends may run away or make excuses. Same with the guy. He might want the fetus but the woman can go get an abortion. Maybe show them a video of a woman giving birth! I don't care. Show them what it does to your future. Show them how horrific abortion is and how it should be used as the LAST resort. It is NOT EASY.
3) After 3 or 4 months, ban abortion UNLESS
a) Mothers health is in danger
b) horrific fetus defect. I am not talking like Downs Syndrome. I am sure you know what I mean.
c) The fetus has already died.
Then according to this brilliant logic, no one had a say speaking against slavery prior to the civil war. Or speaking against discrimination in the 1950s.
So all laws should be ignored in case there are a few in there that we don't like? If you'd like to debate the laws relating to slavery or discrimination, start up a thread. I'd be happy to dicuss those on a different thread.
I notice everyone keeps on ignoring my other questions. But it's to be expected really. Pregnancy prevention and care of the mother and baby after birth are just not ever going to be concerns of pro-lifers.
Ironically, I have to go an evolution lecture for religion. BUT before anyone goes nuts on me here about liberal brainwashing in college, I also went to Church for class (which I enjoyed A LOT). We get to learn about evolution and religious theories.
Yeah. I think for me, ideally-
1) Free birth control from government-The tax money that is being used on illegal immigrants and other useless programs can be used to protect our citizens from unwanted pregnancy.
2) Sex ed-show the students what having a baby before commitment can do. Calculate the costs. Show them the grim reality that their boyfriends may run away or make excuses. Same with the guy. He might want the fetus but the woman can go get an abortion. Maybe show them a video of a woman giving birth! I don't care. Show them what it does to your future. Show them how horrific abortion is and how it should be used as the LAST resort. It is NOT EASY.
3) After 3 or 4 months, ban abortion UNLESS
a) Mothers health is in danger
b) horrific fetus defect. I am not talking like Downs Syndrome. I am sure you know what I mean.
c) The fetus has already died.
4) Make rape/incest an exception.
Can we agree?
Absolutely except with rape or incest, the mother should make the decision in the first couple of months.
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