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Umm, no, and give up on the insults too. I was pointing out wilderness designation means nothing as far as trash and worn trails goes. If someone was even able to dump half a pickup truck halfway up a mountain in a "wilderness" area, along with the trails being worn to just roots and rocks, and trash of every sort along the way, just what do you think is going to happen if you declare other areas wilderness? That the slobs who dump garbage and break the rules will magically go away or start following the rules? Here's a hint: punishing the law abiding doesn't have any effect on the lawbreakers. Generally, the ATV trails here are in better shape and are cleaner than the wilderness trails.
There's a big difference between "wilderness" areas back East that are a few hundred acres and wilderness out West that encompasses tens of thousands of acres over entire mountain ranges. Here the garbage falls were the roads go and the wilderness is untouched because it is not easily accessable to begin with. It's a completely different dynamic... which is the problem. I don't want the West to look like the East. There doesn't NEED to be a road to every point in the Intermountain West.
As far as insults go, you are the one who apparently wants to tie me to your bumper and go mudding. You aren't talking to a fluffy tree licking city hippy, but a crusty outdoorsman that clings to his guns and freedoms just a little bit more than is healthy. Go threaten someone who is actually scared of you.
If you look at history Republicans and conservatives were against setting aside many of the National parks. It was only because of Roosevelt getting the national monument power that many of the monuments of this country were preserved. If this was a world of Republicans there would be a Las Vegas strip in Yellowstone, and one to match in Yosemite. Republicans always remind me of the
Character in the great outdoors where Roman looks at the hills of the north Midwest as "undeveloped places of future hazardous waste disposal and electric plants. They want to exploit anything of value for use today, and would most certainly cut their mothers stomach open is they thought she had swallowed a penny.
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if they had thier way completly we would all be hiking to work too. i mean gee wiz i dont have 2 weeks to get to my hunting camp with all my gear.i just take the jeep. and i never see any hikers back there.
Red Rock hearing: Agreement on wilderness, but not on how or how much
Posted: 10/01/2009 3:47 PM More Local News >> Next >> by Matt Canham
The Salt Lake Tribune
Washington » Everyone who participated in a congressional hearing Thursday on a bill granting wilderness status to massive areas of Utah agreed the state has spectacular lands that deserve protection.
But passionate disagreements emerged over how to accomplish that.
Utah's five federal lawmakers appeared at the House subcommittee hearing to denounce the Red Rock bill, a statewide effort 20 years in the making that would protect 9.4 million acres from new roads, mining or off-road vehicles.
"There are beautiful pristine areas of Utah that need to be protected, but this bill goes far far beyond that," said Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, the ranking Republican member of the public lands subcommittee. "This particular bill is a relic of the past. It has not been successful since the age of disco and it will not be successful now or in the future."
Utah's congressional delegation favors smaller county-level bills where local politicians, business leaders and environmentalists agree on what lands deserve the government's highest level of protection, such as the Washington County lands bill that designated more than 250,000 acres of new wilderness earlier this year.
There's a big difference between "wilderness" areas back East that are a few hundred acres and wilderness out West that encompasses tens of thousands of acres over entire mountain ranges. Here the garbage falls were the roads go and the wilderness is untouched because it is not easily accessable to begin with. It's a completely different dynamic... which is the problem. I don't want the West to look like the East. There doesn't NEED to be a road to every point in the Intermountain West.
Umm, the location I described has over 25,000 acres designated wilderness, plus even more federal land surrounding it, and includes several mountains.
You don't need to build roads everywhere but you don't need to be closing the existing roads either.
Have you ever watched Survivorman with Les Stroud? His show pretty well shows a sad fact...everywhere, even hundreds of miles from civilization in the wilderness in Alaska or Northern Canada, has humans' trash present. Banning ATV's isn't going to stop slobs.
Quote:
As far as insults go, you are the one who apparently wants to tie me to your bumper and go mudding. You aren't talking to a fluffy tree licking city hippy, but a crusty outdoorsman that clings to his guns and freedoms just a little bit more than is healthy. Go threaten someone who is actually scared of you.
Utter nonsense. I don't even own an ATV BTW. The debate is won when insults are resorted to, as the saying goes...
if they had thier way completly we would all be hiking to work too. i mean gee wiz i dont have 2 weeks to get to my hunting camp with all my gear.i just take the jeep. and i never see any hikers back there.
Actually, they get their way, we won't even be allowed in the country. Hunting certainly wouldn't. Hunting camp? No way. They hate those. They're trying to drive everyone into the cities, whether directly (taking your land) or indirectly (destroy the local economy by locking up land).
This is about how humans are encroaching on set-aside areas more & more. If they could've controlled it way back in the day, this wouldn't be a problem. But legislation keeps taking away nature as it should be & letting humans in. That's not right. I wouldn't be surprised if the national parks collapse under the will of special interest groups. It's sad, there's a reason why these areas were declared national parks, & it wasn't so everyone & their grandmother could tear it up willy nilly.
If you look at history Republicans and conservatives were against setting aside many of the National parks. It was only because of Roosevelt getting the national monument power that many of the monuments of this country were preserved. If this was a world of Republicans there would be a Las Vegas strip in Yellowstone, and one to match in Yosemite. Republicans always remind me of the
Character in the great outdoors where Roman looks at the hills of the north Midwest as "undeveloped places of future hazardous waste disposal and electric plants. They want to exploit anything of value for use today, and would most certainly cut their mothers stomach open is they thought she had swallowed a penny.
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Umm, actually, many of the National Parks would have been made National Forests instead, and therefore, mutiple uses would be allowed. We don't need to, and furthermore shouldn't, make our vast lands museums to simply look at. It's unscientific and foolish. The Native Americans never allowed the Western forests to get so dense and brushy leading to the fires we have today. They burned the brush out, which the large old growth trees survived, which also helped the wildlife. Here's an example, not allowing clearcuts in Maine is a problem for the endangered lynx, and is also hurting the grouse, moose and deer population in the Northeast: Natural habitat of lynx at risk as Maine clearcuts diminish - The Boston Globe
I don't want everyplace stripped bare of resources or paved over. But the way the NPS goes about things is absolutely wrong. The lands should be managed sustainably using science as a guide. We've learned a lot over the past century on how to manage land. The NPS is stuck in the early 1900's with their practices, which can be summed up as doing nothing.
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