Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Remember the whole controversy over "death panels"-the idea, as President Obama dismissively put it, that greater government control over medicine would cause bureaucrats to "pull the plug on grandma"?
Fenton's daughter describes the NHS system for dealing with very ill elderly patients as "a subterfuge for legalized euthanasia of the elderly." In other words, a death panel.
This is just the latest story. For some time, British newspapers are always filled with reports about the failures of the National Health Service, but the barrage has intensified in recent months. A sampling:
Government-run HC leads to rationing, no doubt about it. We see it in Canada, the UK, France and other countries with huge HC entitlements. When rationing, someone who works for that huge bloated bureaucracy must make the decisions (those "independent panels" of obama's that will make determinations) on who to treat, when and how much it will cost.
Uh, what? Rationing? You mean the insurance companies denying claims when you need it is NOT rationing? Denying coverage to certain groups in NOT rationing? Covering only selected people? Covering only this and that, but not the important things? The list goes on and on...
"Rationing" is HAPPENING RIGHT NOW in the U.S. You on't have to wait for it, it's already here.
I've lived in some of the countries you referenced to. And there are no "death panels". That's total BS, sorry.
It is not rationing in this country. Denying a claim because of a pre-existing condition is not rationing.
The UK is hoping to cut costs by allowing and actively engaging in the determining who is going to live or die.
According to the horror stories coming out of the UK, they are doing a bang-up job. No BS.
What is it then? You are selecting who is gonna get treatment and who is not. You totally nailed it. They are doing exactly what you are accusing other countries of.
And please, I have lived in the U.K. You're stories are simply stories. Fox News is spreading LIES! Nothing new.
Perhaps I can provide a Canadian perspective on this. There are no death panels here in Canada for our health care system, although I wouldn't necessarily rule them out in the future. It all depends on who's in power and how they spin it at the time for public consumption.
The main beefs I have with the system are that many operations that can be obtained in the U.S. with a week's notice may take six months here. For instance, a dear relative of mine back in 1990 was diagnosed with brain cancer but was left to wait a month before surgery could be performed to remove the tumour.
Another issue is with specialists. I had to wait three months to get in to see a dermatologist for a skin condition I had.
I'm fortunate, in that I don't require a lot of medical attention. I generally see my doctor less than once a year and even then it's usually for something mundane like ensuring cholesterol levels are good. I feel awful for some of the folks out there who desperately need proper care though.
Just remember that nothing is free.
Perhaps I can provide a Canadian perspective on this. There are no death panels here in Canada for our health care system, although I wouldn't necessarily rule them out in the future. It all depends on who's in power and how they spin it at the time for public consumption.
The main beefs I have with the system are that many operations that can be obtained in the U.S. with a week's notice may take six months here. For instance, a dear relative of mine back in 1990 was diagnosed with brain cancer but was left to wait a month before surgery could be performed to remove the tumour.
Another issue is with specialists. I had to wait three months to get in to see a dermatologist for a skin condition I had.
I'm fortunate, in that I don't require a lot of medical attention. I generally see my doctor less than once a year and even then it's usually for something mundane like ensuring cholesterol levels are good. I feel awful for some of the folks out there who desperately need proper care though.
Just remember that nothing is free.
That all has to do with suppy/demand. If you don't have anybody going to the doctor like here ( cause nobody can afford it), then you won't have to wait. I'd rather wait and have everybody covered. I don't care if I don't get an appointment for a dermatologist the next day or not. And I gotta tell you that there have been many occasions where I had to wait too.
A friend of mine has cancer, and he usually waits weeks for a simply blood tests etc.
That all has to do with suppy/demand. If you don't have anybody going to the doctor like here ( cause nobody can afford it), then you won't have to wait. I'd rather wait and have everybody covered. I don't care if I don't get an appointment for a dermatologist the next day or not. And I gotta tell you that there have been many occasions where I had to wait too.
A friend of mine has cancer, and he usually waits weeks for a simply blood tests etc.
What good is it having everyone covered when the service provided is half-assed? The Canada Health Act doesn't even allow us to purchase individual health insurance to supplement the public system. How is that fair? In the past few years there have been many people from Ontario running over to Buffalo, NY to obtain MRIs because they had to wait a terribly long time here. A fully private system may not be the answer, but the answer doesn't lie in a fully public one either.
With respect to your mentioning of the supply/demand issue, I have to tell you that making the whole system "free" encourages abuse of the system. We have a problem here with people clogging the hospital E.R.s for things like minor aches and sniffles. Check this article, as proof: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...cy-050401.html
That's from four years ago but little has changed. It's also from the CBC, so it's hardly a conservative opinion.
What is it then? You are selecting who is gonna get treatment and who is not. You totally nailed it. They are doing exactly what you are accusing other countries of.
And please, I have lived in the U.K. You're stories are simply stories. Fox News is spreading LIES! Nothing new.
I look forward to a conservative trying to deflect your point.
It probably won't happen though. Don't count on it.
I don't see how there is a difference between what health care private companies are doing now versus what they THINK the government would do.
Anything to protect the precious companies. Forget the People.
What is it then? You are selecting who is gonna get treatment and who is not. You totally nailed it. They are doing exactly what you are accusing other countries of.
And please, I have lived in the U.K. You're stories are simply stories. Fox News is spreading LIES! Nothing new.
i lived in houston last year off the loop as i worked on the recovery from ike, the best heart doctors in the world i thought were in houston while i have been sentenced to death here in ny by the existing medical establishment so i can't ride with you on this one. i don't care about canada or the u.k. if all the senators and congressmen have free insurance we pay for and i worked all my life then i should be covered too, apparently i am willing to make payments while senators and congressmen don't have to. there is your death panel, the haves taking and taking, mba's with business degrees robbing this country of its wealth and the politicians helping them, we were the home of ibm, they started here as a clock factory in 1890 and now they are gone. sold out overseas. wewere sold down the river for a buck and discounted at k-mart besides. in fact we are so low one of our 2 kmarts closed. best buy is just now opening a new store here for the 1st time even though their distribution center is only 30 miles away. a great place for not paying any taxes but a lousy place to retail apparently. don't blame obama he's the only one trying to get it right and i don't believe death panel stories out of the u.k.
Denying a claim because of a pre-existing condition is not rationing.
your argument would have been valid if that was all they were doing. however, what about all the cases where insurance companies deny care for people who already have insurance? for instance when they fall terminally ill and desperately need an organ transplant, yet the insurance companies refuse to pay for it because it costs too much? you dont have to look too long to find plenty of such cases.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
inner loop
