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Old 01-28-2010, 03:35 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,797,475 times
Reputation: 2772

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BBC News - French court to give verdict on former PM smear trial

Quote:
Mr de Villepin is not accused of drawing up the list, but of knowing it was false and failing to stop the conspiracy.

He is charged with "complicity in false accusation, complicity in using forgeries, receipt of stolen property and breach of trust".

Prosecutors have called for him to receive an 18-month suspended sentence and a fine of $70,000 (50,000 euros).

The former French minister is one of five people on trial over the scandal. They all deny any wrongdoing.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,644,854 times
Reputation: 20165
Sounds like a great idea. Politics are descending into a circus , and there should be acountability for those who use lies, and underhand techniques. It is high time for the stables to be cleaned and for the public to be able to regain a little trust into their politicians.

Smear campaigns will have a very damaging effect as generally the public will believe whatever they are fed without trying to get at the truth ( which is often quite difficult in the first place). Whip the public into mass hysteria with certain well chosen "facts" and a political career can go down the drain.


Also it devalues politics and degrades its value by confirming to us that all politics are dirty. This leads to disenchantment, which in turns leads to depoliticisation, people not voting, or voting one particular way as "revenge" against whatever party, and general apathy. The whole system of democracy then becomes completely pointless if people refuse to participate in public policy making.

Time for us to try and put back a little integrity into the system ( not that it ever had any). Basically as a politician / high civil servant you lie and cheat, you pay. Fines and even jail sentences seem completely appropriate to me. Put the fear of the Law into them.

One only has to look at this forum which I think is reasonably representative of the general populace to see how hysterical rantings and lies can actually make an impression on people. People often believe what they want to believe and will welcome any lies presented to them as "facts".
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:37 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,797,475 times
Reputation: 2772
I'd love to see a heaping dose of accountability put upon politicians.

Everything you've illustrated... I think what Bush campaign did by way of character assassination for McCain in 2000 primary should be ample evidence. GOP allowing that degree of nastiness, it came full circle to bite them in 2008 and McCain deserved far better, but there he is repeating the behavior with a website claiming Obama was a muslim terrorist. I have no idea why they'd feel the need to resort to lying in the first place, because Obama was radical, and that's scary enough to a generally conservative country.

Had everyone just focused on content the natural shortcomings of each candidate would have shown through. The truth of who they are, their limited abilities, and who we are as a nation require no embellishment. The truth is collectively awful enough LOL.
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,644,854 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
I'd love to see a heaping dose of accountability put upon politicians.

Everything you've illustrated... I think what Bush campaign did by way of character assassination for McCain in 2000 primary should be ample evidence. GOP allowing that degree of nastiness, it came full circle to bite them in 2008 and McCain deserved far better, but there he is repeating the behavior with a website claiming Obama was a muslim terrorist. I have no idea why they'd feel the need to resort to lying in the first place, because Obama was radical, and that's scary enough to a generally conservative country.

Had everyone just focused on content the natural shortcomings of each candidate would have shown through. The truth of who they are, their limited abilities, and who we are as a nation require no embellishment. The truth is collectively awful enough LOL.

I agree. To me Politics should be about Policy and I am so , so tired of Politics having now become about personalities, who has the widest smile or who can hurl the most dung at his opponent.

A Politician should be able to "score" points against the opposite party based purely on his/her policies and plans for the country.


"Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah" politics are simply childish and churlish and yet most politicians resort to it.

The strength of the argument alone should be able to stand without having to resort to lies and manipulation. Intelligent debate , rational rigourous intellectual discourse, all those are things we see less and less with politicians ( and the public if CD is anything to go by) descending into childish name calling and underhand tactics more akin to hand to hand combat than public life.


I find it so depressing. Politics at the hand of the day regulate everything which affect us ALL, and these kind of dirty Policis only foster a deep distrust of something we should all be involed with and passionate about no matter what side of the argument we are on. Instead of hurling abuse , lies and deception, a little transparency and accountability would go a long way.


I feel that if your argument as a Politician is strong enough, it does not need to become a matter of personality or agressive posturing.
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,841,952 times
Reputation: 24863
If our politicians told the whole truth about themselves and about our country I think we would all be deeply embarrassed. How can anyone be proud of politicians cutting special deals for thier businesses partners or running a military empire dedicated to protecting those deals? Most of our politicians are frauds and our foreign policy is empire building with force. We are frauds controlling thugs.

I hope we can learn how to do better than this.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:25 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,797,475 times
Reputation: 2772
Americans by and large do walk their talk as best they can. I don't think leadership in this country follows along with the example of it's own people very well. We as a people don't conduct ourselves the way politicians do. The way they operate is a disconnect.

Childishness and thuggery... yes, that's just what we want for foreign policy.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:25 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,499,259 times
Reputation: 4014
It would certainly be interesting if it were a crime to deliberately mislead the public. The job market for prison guards would definitely improve...
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:34 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,797,475 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
It would certainly be interesting if it were a crime to deliberately mislead the public. The job market for prison guards would definitely improve...
No hiding behind 'a campaign manager made me do it' either. Send them both on the same trial. I'd like to see outrageous penalties and public apologies.
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