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"The dastaar, as the Sikh turban is known, is an article of faith that has been made mandatory by the founders of Sikhism. It is not to be regarded as mere cultural paraphernalia."
It's required by their religious and cultural tradition for male Sikhs to wear a turban, it's not a choice, "like wearing a Viking outfit."
Yes, it stands out in most places in America. But to say that if they would just remove their turbans they'd fit in more is like telling Hassidic Jews to just shave their beards and take off their hats so they won't get so many stares..
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
I suspect the turban is more an ethnic look than anything else, and if they want to fit in, they can fit in, if they want to dress like they just came over, then they have to accept they might get looked at. It's no different for Americans if we move to a country with a very different dress code. We can fit in or continue to dress like Americans and then be looked at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcadca
No it is for religious reasons. It would be like telling a Christian not to wear a cross because it is for ethnic reasons.
The covering of hair with turban was made official by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the tenth Guru of Sikhs. The main reason is to preserve the Sikh identity. Sikhs are only 2% of India’s population, if Sikhs do not wear turban, they would be lost in the crowd of Hindus and Muslims. No one will be able to identify a Sikh. Upon establishing turban as a Sikh identity Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, “My Sikh will be recognized among millions”.
In addition, the people from high class wear turban and were called sardars (leaders). This segregated people from high and low classes. So in order to eliminate the class system associated with turban, Guru Gobind Singh Ji made each and every Sikh a sardar. He also rejected class system by giving all Sikh the last name Singh and Kaur.
Furthermore, Sikhs do not cut their hair and the turban protects the hair from dust. Some people might ask the question that if Sikhs cover their hair on head, why don’t they cover their beard? The only reason one would cover his beard is to protect it from dirt. But dirt is not a big problem for beard. The beard can be cleaned very easily while washing the face.
Thanks Deezus and Dcadca for your informative posts.
Malamute, both of the above posts reiterate that the turbans are worn for religious reasons, not something that is just cultural. So asking a Sikh to remove their turban to "Americanize" themselves is tantamount to asking a Christian not to wear the cross or any of the other examples the above posters referenced.
If you are a Christian (I don't want to assume your religious affiliation) would you be ok with someone telling you not to wear the cross in order to fit into America? If you are of another faith, would you be ok with someone telling you not to use its religious symbols in order to fit into America?
I don't think it's an issue of Americanization. I think it is an issue of asking people not to practice their faith. I am not ok with that. Are you?
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 11-06-2009 at 04:41 PM..
Reason: afterthought
I think immigrants today are extremely sensitive. Look at immigrants of the past -- the Irish for example had to put up with stereotypes of drunken Irish, the Polish were the butt of many Polish jokes. Just about every immigrant group was stereotyped in some way or another, there were arguments over religions -- people of some beliefs were put down as "Papists".
Immigrants in the past also got looked at and laughed at, but they dealt with it by giving up that fresh-off-the-boat look, putting on American style clothes.
I suspect the turban is more an ethnic look than anything else, and if they want to fit in, they can fit in, if they want to dress like they just came over, then they have to accept they might get looked at. It's no different for Americans if we move to a country with a very different dress code. We can fit in or continue to dress like Americans and then be looked at.
The difference is Sikhs are not just getting ridiculed, they are getting assaulted by dumb rednecks who are uneducated. I'm sure Sikhs get enough jokes as it is and can deal with that. What they can't ignore is being shot with a gun. And this is America. Many cultures comprise it including Sikh culture. It's not the job of Sikhs to fit in. It's the job of rednecks to get educated and show more tolerance. These Sikhs are Americans. You act like they are different.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-06-2009 at 04:47 PM..
I'm half Hispanic half Caucasian and I know I'm going to get evil stares and harrassed just like what happened around 9/11.
Direct quote from the OP's post. The OP is worried about getting evil stares and harassed because he thinks being half hispanic and half white in AZ is going to get him a lot of attention.
The only way Sikhs stand out is if they wear turbans -- that is their choice, just like wearing a Viking outfit might get you noticed more than if you dressed to fit in.
Harrassment includes violence. I'm the OP and you are taking me out of context just to argue a weak point. A Sikh was shot at for his appearance. And unfortunately there are uneducated people who mistake people for being Muslim due to their appearance and then commit violence against those people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Still that's a choice. In this country they will not be beaten and flogged if they decide not to wear the turban. They can modify their religion or stand out -- I never read that Amish complain - they keep their own style, people most likely look at them with curiosity but they accept it. I did know a Mennonite woman who didn't like standing out with the old fashioned clothes and hair net so she stopped wearing them. If the Sikhs are truly peaceful, they'll do te same her Mennonite group did about that -- nothing.
That isn't true. I'm Hispanic. I wear no turbans. I have no facial hair. I'm half White so my facial features are not typical of Hispanics so I can be mistaken for a dark Italian, an Arab etc. What am I supposed to....dye my hair blonde to pacify the idiots????
The difference is Sikhs are not just getting ridiculed, they are getting assaulted by ignorant people who are uneducated. I'm sure Sikhs get enough jokes as it is and can deal with that. What they can't ignore is being shot with a gun. And this is America. Many cultures comprise it including Sikh culture. It's not the job of Sikhs to fit in. It's the job of ignorant people to get educated and show more tolerance.
There, now I can agree with you.
You really should stop with the sweeping generalizations. It makes it very difficult to agree with you.
I believe she should be allowed to refuse the vaccine for any reason at all. The government has become very Fascist
I don't think you understand fascism, so I will leave it at that. However, in your blind hatred against government, you seem to believe that hospital that employs the woman is "government". Its not!
And you didn't answer my question so here it is again. Given a choice, should the woman be able to choose between religion or employment? Or, should employer be forced to succumb to her religious needs? Which is it? Let me hear it.
You really should stop with the sweeping generalizations. It makes it very difficult to agree with you.
Am I making sweeping generalizations? Read this thread. Check out the respondents. You have people blaming Sikhs for wearing turbans instead of blaming people for assaulting them.
The Sikhs of Kashmir get harassed every day by muslim radicals. And in North Western Frontier Province of Pakistan, Sikhs are being forced to pay jizya.
But do you condone what the Muslim radicals do in Kashmir? And that it is okay to harass people in America simply based on religious grounds because they're not Christians?
Am I making sweeping generalizations? Read this thread. Check out the respondents. You have people blaming Sikhs for wearing turbans instead of blaming people for assaulting them.
I know they are ignorant but don't you realize that when you make the generalization that they are red necks you are no better then they are. They are ignorant not red necks because not all red necks are ignorant.
Honestly, how many of your friends can honestly see a Sikh and recognize they are Sikh and not an Islamic fundamentalist or see an Indian and know that most are Hindus and not Muslims? I'm sure you can but what about your friends?
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan.
Am I making sweeping generalizations? Read this thread. Check out the respondents. You have people blaming Sikhs for wearing turbans instead of blaming people for assaulting them.
WE live in a "good ole boy" state, you don's see crimes against Hispanics (yes we have them) nor do you see or hear of anyone making comments about those who are from the mid-east. You are right, this thread was started by a bigot looking to get as much reaction as he can...
Nita
Correct....and that becomes clearer and clearer with each new page of the thread. There is no point here but to inflame and pick a fight.
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