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Also? Germany. The public option includes mental health, dental, optical, and prescriptions
The cost of insurance,co-pays, & drugs for individuals in both of these countries are a BARGAIN compared to the U.S., and access is comparable & at least as efficient, if not better.
And if you lose your job, you are NOT dropped from your plan.
The plans actively compete, and yet, they do not make a profit.
I cannot imagine a better plan.
You can aspire to it all you want but, it doesn't mean we can do it here because they can do it there. We have 305 million people in our country but, more importantly you can't talk about one component of their governments without taking into consideration all the other parts....it all fits together....some parts allow others to be possible. For example Japan doesn't have an army/military....there not allowed to, it was part of the agreement that was made when they surrendered in WWII. Their defense budget (percentage wise) is going to be a lot lower than ours.
Profit? Do you know what the difference is when you refer to profit in a non-profit company/organization compared to a for profit company? In a non-profit, profit is called surplus....what they do with a surplus is different than what gets done with profit but, it's not like they don't make any money in a non-profit....it just has different name.
The plans actively compete? I think in Germany the prices are all the same. In Japan, you don't have a choice of insurers....the one you have to join is based on the company or industry you work in.
When people compare U.S. healthcare to other countries healthcare, they're generally very critical of ours because they live here and have a better idea of how it really works....when they talk about the other country's healthcare system, you hear description like "it works great"...."it's just as good"....there are a whole bunch of details missing with descriptions like that.
A couple of decades back Canada did a study and found out the wait time for certain critical surgeries was so long, people were dying before they could get the surgery. They made a bunch of changes to correct that and the wait times are shorter now. Does that mean there's no waiting time for them now....no....it means they're short enough to where people aren't dying while they wait for their surgery any more. There are details for everything....some good, some bad about each system....you can't just sum things up with one word and be at all truthful (or accurate).
Everyone talks about the insurance companies using lobbyists to get what they want. It's not the insurance companies....politicians have given them up with no problem, they've been blamed for everything. It's the companies that you don't hear getting blamed much that are the ones using lobbyists to get what they want out of Washington....the drug companies. Obama already cut a deal with them and now you hardly hear about them being the problem....actually you don't hear anything coming from the administration....it's as though it was a non issue, when it's a huge one.
Thank you for the insight. I am sure most people, do/did assume the bulk of the issues are Ins. Co. related. My own feeling was that they are the primary culprit. I think it is fair to say, that there is an abudance of blame to spread. I am assuming your business is in the health care insurance. If so, we are at the two ends of the issue. My business is in the prevention side. I try to help people avoid health problems, you help them deal with health problems they either can't or, I feel in most cases, won't avoid. It is somewhat strange to say, but business on both ends are growing rapidly. I guess, because of the rapid growth I am seeing, it gives me hope, when I see that more and more people are recognizing, no accepting, their own responsibility for their health. And even in this demanding economy, I have seen very little slowing.
Yet on both ends of the issue, we have problems. On a National scale, there is nowhere near enough being done for prevention. Getting people to accept their own responsibility and making it easy for them to do it. That's a whole different discussion that I am happy to get into with anybody willing to exchange ideas. I have been trying with our Govt. with little success thus far. Although, I have to say that since Obama, there has been at least "some" two way communication. Prior ---- zero. On the care end of the issue, I believe our future well being, health and economic, requires restructure. I am not opposed to a system of private insurance, as long as it provides for our needs effectively. I don't believe that it currently does. As your post clearly points out, there is an abundant supply of inequities and inefficiencies in our current system. I am similarly sceptical of our political "leaders" and would hope that whatever comes out of the reform process there be some type of public/private oversite.
Thank you for the insight. I am sure most people, do/did assume the bulk of the issues are Ins. Co. related. My own feeling was that they are the primary culprit. I think it is fair to say, that there is an abudance of blame to spread. I am assuming your business is in the health care insurance. If so, we are at the two ends of the issue. My business is in the prevention side. I try to help people avoid health problems, you help them deal with health problems they either can't or, I feel in most cases, won't avoid. It is somewhat strange to say, but business on both ends are growing rapidly. I guess, because of the rapid growth I am seeing, it gives me hope, when I see that more and more people are recognizing, no accepting, their own responsibility for their health. And even in this demanding economy, I have seen very little slowing.
Yet on both ends of the issue, we have problems. On a National scale, there is nowhere near enough being done for prevention. Getting people to accept their own responsibility and making it easy for them to do it. That's a whole different discussion that I am happy to get into with anybody willing to exchange ideas. I have been trying with our Govt. with little success thus far. Although, I have to say that since Obama, there has been at least "some" two way communication. Prior ---- zero. On the care end of the issue, I believe our future well being, health and economic, requires restructure. I am not opposed to a system of private insurance, as long as it provides for our needs effectively. I don't believe that it currently does. As your post clearly points out, there is an abundant supply of inequities and inefficiencies in our current system. I am similarly sceptical of our political "leaders" and would hope that whatever comes out of the reform process there be some type of public/private oversite.
Yes, insurance has caused a lot of the problems but, why is the question....look at these two links...the first one is a post I left on here about HIPAA and how it relates to the current attempt at UHC reform. The second is a report from the Heritage Foundation that explains what has happened in states with mandates on health insurance.
My fear is UHC passing and then it never getting all the problems in it fixed. In 5-10 years a lot of people won't even realize how we got to that point....they won't go back and look at this bill to find a solution to the problems it's caused. No one even realizes what happened in 97 with HIPAA and the way they've been adding to it ever since. I saw the handwriting on the wall when they put HIPAA into law (most in my profession did) but, it's actually worse than what I expected would happen. Politicians aren't going to mention their failures from the past (not the real failures). When they campaign each party claims failures the other has had in the past but, it's all vague....they never really go in and look at a bill and determine exactly where the problems started an how.....they just do a lot of that good vs. evil crap I mentioned before.....party loyalists eat that up.
The plans actively compete? I think in Germany the prices are all the same. In Japan, you don't have a choice of insurers....the one you have to join is based on the company or industry you work in.
When people compare U.S. healthcare to other countries healthcare, they're generally very critical of ours because they live here and have a better idea of how it really works....when they talk about the other country's healthcare system, you hear description like "it works great"...."it's just as good"....there are a whole bunch of details missing with descriptions like that.
Normally I would agree with you, but I watched a documentary on healthcare systems worldwide, and the citizens themselves were interviewed. In Germany and Japan in particular, they were very happy with their care, and the costs to them. The only complaint was by doctors, who seemed to think they could be paid more for their services. But they were still making $80k-$120k a year - that's nothing to complain about.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Normally I would agree with you, but I watched a documentary on healthcare systems worldwide, and the citizens themselves were interviewed. In Germany and Japan in particular, they were very happy with their care, and the costs to them. The only complaint was by doctors, who seemed to think they could be paid more for their services. But they were still making $80k-$120k a year - that's nothing to complain about.
Japans system is going broke - literally. Hospitals and clinics have closed / closing. Services reduced. Taxes having to go up to cover some of the losses.
And as an FYI - I am not one to ever suggest that any profession - any professional - should have a salary cap of any sort whatsoever.
Hence why I have difficulty with your statement above; But they were still making $80k-$120k a year - that's nothing to complain about - My position / opinion is, if they can go somewhere and make double / triple (or more) what they are making now - they should go for it.
Normally I would agree with you, but I watched a documentary on healthcare systems worldwide, and the citizens themselves were interviewed. In Germany and Japan in particular, they were very happy with their care, and the costs to them. The only complaint was by doctors, who seemed to think they could be paid more for their services. But they were still making $80k-$120k a year - that's nothing to complain about.
Quote:
Public debt:
173% of GDP (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 2 164.3% of GDP (2004 est.)
And as an FYI - I am not one to ever suggest that any profession - any professional - should have a salary cap of any sort whatsoever.
From a legal ethics standpoint, that is reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
Hence why I have difficulty with your statement above; But they were still making $80k-$120k a year - that's nothing to complain about - My position / opinion is, if they can go somewhere and make double / triple (or more) what they are making now - they should go for it.
At least you admit it's only your opinion this time.
From a legal ethics standpoint, that is reasonable.
Seriously - I want to make sure I understand --
Is it your position that there SHOULD be salary caps?
I honestly want to make sure of your position
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