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It seems like it because you are. Once again, your post is full of inaccuracies about Christianity, but you do have some valid statements about it. Still, I struggle to see how this relates to the idea that such beliefs should cause you to fear for America. This belief system was even more widespread when our country rose to power. As we lose faith in these things, we seem to lose power.
What I find really interesting about your reply is that you did not try to question, counter argue, or disprove anything I wrote - things that, lets face it - punch holes into the validity of Christianity.
I should stop before I get labeled "intolerant". But let me ask you, where do you draw the line between faith and reality? Mountains upon mountains of evidence pointing to an Earth 4.2-4.6 billion years old yet most Christians still choose to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth.
That's just one of many examples. You ask why such beliefs cause me to fear America? Because that's just scary, that's why. People in Japan, in China, in Germany, etc are not having these kinds of debates.
Instead of debating the role genetics play in human development, they are coming out with revolutionary new medicines/technology to treat various ailments, thus garnering a better understanding of the human genome. We are falling behind, and propogating these whimsical ideas is not helping the situation.
As I stated, I have no issue with Christians practicing/believing in whatever they want to believe in church and in the home. But don't you dare attempt spread that ignorance (what else should I call it?) among our children.
Again, call me intolerant, hateful whatever...but you can't dispute the fact that most other industrialized nations are not having these foolish debates.
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Originally Posted by jco
Shouldn't the greater fear be a nation divided to the point that all citizens do is attack one another?
I think a lot of these attacks may be avoided if religion stayed out of politics. Afterall, that IS what the Constitution called for - a separation of church and state. Somehow, that concept has all but been thrown out the window in arguments as to why some groups should/shouldn't have various rights.
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Originally Posted by jco
You exhibit no desire to actually understand Christianity (demonstrated through all the fallacy in your posts).
That's not true. What I want to understand is how people - educated people - can actually believe in what the Bible says word for word despite the mountain of evidence that essentially disproves nearly every facet of Biblical testament.
Again, throughout all the "fallacy" of my posts, you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence that supports your views. My guess is because there isn't any. So instead, you put the focus on me, my personal life, my "intolerance", instead of answering the hard questions.
Lindsay, you apparently are less tolerant of most Christian people than most Christians are of gay people.
Please explain your logic. Because I provide facts which basically discredit the notion of a 6,000 year old Earth? Because I provide facts which discredit the notion of Adam & Eve? Because I discredit the notion of choice of human sexuality?
Explain to me how any of those FACTS is in any way, shape, or form "less tolerant" of Christian people?
The difference from me and Christians that like to call homosexuality a choice and sin, is that I actually provide evidence to back up my claims. That's all I've been doing...but they don't seem to provide evidence to the contrary.
Instead, the argument of choice is that "it's in the Bible...so it must be true!".
As I've stated over and over again, religious beliefs have no place in government. When you look at the argument against gay marriage, it's typically something to the effect of:
"I'm against gay marriage because marriage has typically been a union between a man and a woman."
And that's true. Just as someone in 1920 could have said, "I'm against interracial marriage because marriage has typically been a union between a man and a woman of the same race."
When you ask people with these views to elaborate on this viewpoint, they often use Biblical scripture - "...because the Bible says homosexuality is wrong".
And that's where the problem is. The fact of the matter is, most Americans disapprove of homosexuality because the Bible says it's a "sin". Let's not confuse the issue here.
The notion is propogated by pastors who give passionate, fire and brimstone sermons on the sins of gays and lesbians, thus instilling a fear, hatred, and "disapproval" of homosexuals deep within the conscious of American society.
It certainly would be nice for Christians to rally against the marriage rights of convicted murderers, rapists, and child abusers, with the passion they do against gays, wouldn't it? But you know, none of those sins are as great as two law abiding, tax paying, society contributing people who just happen to be of the same sex.
That's just one of many examples. You ask why such beliefs cause me to fear America? Because that's just scary, that's why. People in Japan, in China, in Germany, etc are not having these kinds of debates.
If you fear America so much and Japan, China and Germany are much more advanced in modern culture, I'm sure they would not mind if you moved there.
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As I stated, I have no issue with Christians practicing/believing in whatever they want to believe in church and in the home. But don't you dare attempt spread that ignorance (what else should I call it?) among our children.
We feel the same way about non-Christian beliefs being spread among our children.
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That's not true. What I want to understand is how people - educated people - can actually actually believe in what the Bible says word for word despite the mountain of evidence that essentially disproves nearly every facet of Biblical testament.
Actually, there is growing mountains of evidence that actually PROVE what the Bible says.
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Again, throughout all the "fallacy" of my posts, you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence that supports your views. My guess is because there isn't any.
Why do I have to prove to you how I believe? Why should I give you evidence? You have a choice, you can either belive or not believe, just as it is my choice to believe or not believe. I am not trying to force you to prove to me why you do not believe.
Let me tell you how I look at things. Suppose all my life I believe in Christ and what He represents. I die one day and then it is proved to me that none of it was true. What have I lost? Nothing except for years of believing something that happened to not be true.
Now, suppose all your life, you do not believe in Christ and what He could represent in your life. One day you die and it is proved to you that you were dead wrong and going straight to Hell. WHAT THEN HAVE YOU LOST?
Actually, there is growing mountains of evidence that actually PROVE what the Bible says.
I'm going to go ahead and ignore the under the table personal slights against me - and address the issue at hand.
What evidence are you referring to? Certainly none from scientists, geneticists, physicists, archaelogists, etc that continue to find evidence, hard proof for the arguments I have stated.
Evidence in support of your views typically comes from fellow Christians - people who benefit from the propogation of such beliefs. And it's weak evidence. It goes against everything conventional science proves.
You see, conventional scientific reason has no agenda, no master plan; the only thing conventional scientific reason looks to do is give a better understanding of the world around us. I can't say the same for Christianity.
Now, suppose all your life, you do not believe in Christ and what He could represent in your life. One day you die and it is proved to you that you were dead wrong and going straight to Hell. WHAT THEN HAVE YOU LOST?
WHO CARES?
This thread isn't about what you think someone ought to believe, it's about limiting people's rights in terms of their own private lives because you don't like it and you think Jesus doesn't approve.
this isn't a theocracy.
And how dare someone infringe on someone else's rights when it doesn't have anything else to do with someone else.
I love the United States and I won't see it taken over by Christian facisists....because there is a thin line at times between some of the Islamic fascists and some of the ones who proclaim themselves Christians. At least you guys aren't putting people to death...yet.
Would the person who gave me the red dot please explain "useless repetitiveness" and claim your identity? I only posted in this thread 2x.
Seems like an invalid reason, esp. considering my posts. I responded in different ways to 2 posters; looks like when some folks get mad, they have a very selective interpretation of the forum rules.
I love the United States and I won't see it taken over by Christian facisists....because there is a thin line at times between some of the Islamic fascists and some of the ones who proclaim themselves Christians. At least you guys aren't putting people to death...yet.
I agree 100%. I am a proud American but religion has slowly but surely seeped into politics, and I see nothing but negative affects a result.
And it's always interesting hear people talk about Islamic fascists like they're these radical entities, so far removed from what's happening right here in the US.
Using religion as a tool to propogate mass disapproval and limitation of rights of certain groups of people - while ignoring the true offenders - those who murder, those who rape, and those who abuse children.
The two "tricks" I suppose are only tricks when used by the side you oppose.
No, but when they are used (as they so frequently were in the exchanges that preceded that post) by the side I oppose, they are still hapless and insincere tricks.
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Originally Posted by tnbound2day
As for apologists? Please show me any place I have apologized.
You might want to look up the word 'apologist'.
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Originally Posted by tnbound2day
Any other blanket statements you'd like to pull off your shelf?
Can't tell yet. When one is called for, I'll be sure to put it forward...
Someone must have gotten the statement on the United States Currency wrong then..."In God We Trust"...And to not correct it for all these years...Hmmmmmm.
All these years since 1954. It's one of those things that Ricard Dawkins complains about -- where some religions claim and are too often granted a special exemption from due and customary criticism and scrutiny. Eventually, we'll succeed in getting rid of that...
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