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“If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
— Winston Churchill
If the Republicans don't begin fighting soon they can just let those 60 Senators destroy our republic. They just aren't doing all they can do to keep this supposed healthcare reform from happening.
You do realize that at the current rate of rising medical costs you have until about 2020 before it eats the whole pie, combined with the tidal wave of coming debt payments? Leaving zero discretionary spending?
What's your problem with poor people having access to health care? You hate them so much that you'd rather see Americas infrastructure crumble, research abandoned, and schools closed rather than see them get preventive medicine?
I guess I missed the part you are talking about. Did Erick say something about Canada other than that they have some kind of single payer care? Sorry but I missed what you seem to have seen.
You mentioned precisely two things in your OP, aside from your link: the healthcare reform and the "destruction" of the republic.
I think you can retrace the dots that nvx connected without a lot of extra help, even though we know you're special
I remember hearing you guys cry about your guns, yet you have more rights than every in regards to that.
I remember you guys crying about the government taking over the banking system, yet TARP is being paid back making the tax payer money.
What freedoms are you talking about?
You have been fooled on so much of this. The money that is coming back from the banks for TARP payments is being squirreled away to use to buy something else later. Not one cent has been put in the Treasury and both Obama and Geithner have talked about using it for further "buy" outs later on as a new stimulus. What the Congress stipulated in the bill means not one damned thing to those people and they won't ever put it where it amounts to payback to the taxpayers. It is in an Obama stash for further use.
You don't see our grand AG trying to get guns but he will make the attempt later.
I thought that the topic of that article you didn't read was something to do with fighting the healthcare mess of Harry Reid. I guess when one doesn't read something like this it is hard for him to discuss it.
You do realize that at the current rate of rising medical costs you have until about 2020 before it eats the whole pie, combined with the tidal wave of coming debt payments? Leaving zero discretionary spending?
What's your problem with poor people having access to health care? You hate them so much that you'd rather see Americas infrastructure crumble, research abandoned, and schools closed rather than see them get preventive medicine?
Now who's trying to dismantle our Republic.
The blankety blank Democrats are trying to destroy us with this half-a**ed attempt to get to single payer so they can have control of all the citizenry of the nation. How many people are for this bill that Dirty Harry is trying to slip past them? I guess you don't pay any attention to polls when they don't go the direction you want them to go. The majority of people just don't want this Reid abortion about abortion and public option to be passed. Nobody will get to read it before it is "passed" unless he is forced to allow it.
i am not sure of what fighting you are talking about, if you mean political and its to stop the excessive spending that is a great idea.
however i was waiting the last 8 years for you to do that. but its ok late is ok, i will support you.
reason being, when the ship goes down the sharks will not ask if you are republican or democrat.
I thought that the topic of that article you didn't read was something to do with fighting the healthcare mess of Harry Reid. I guess when one doesn't read something like this it is hard for him to discuss it.
It was a rant. It went into long tangents about procedures in the Senate and ways in which a determined minority can block legislation. It contained a claim that the bill is unconstitutional, without a single argument from existing precedent, not even a specious one.
If this is the best the red staters have--screaming hysterically that health care will destroy the republic, without even a bad argument to back it up--the rest of us have it better than I ever thought.
All progs who haven't bothered to read the article
OK, folks lets make it easy for you to read parts of that article. I know that most of you don't really understand how the Senate works but you can read here. I hoped some of you would read the article but since you didn't here is a part of it for you so you don't have to click on the link.
Senators have an obligation to protect the Constitution and the budget and points of order can be raised on both. Many constitutional scholars have pointed out that numerous bill provisions, particularly the individual mandate, are unconstitutional. Under the Senate’s rules, constitutional points of order are debatable. The Republicans should be constantly bringing up constitutional points of order, one after another, on every questionable provision. Reid would presumably be forced to file cloture on the points of order and another three days could be burned up on each one.
The healthcare bill violates § 425(a)(2) of the Budget Act, which prohibits consideration of any legislation that contains an unfunded intergovernmental mandate in excess of $69 million per year. If the point of order is raised and sustained, a simple majority may vote to waive the point of order. But the waiver is debatable and thus would presumably require 60 votes to cloture the motion to waive. This would require them to produce 60 votes at a time when they do not have their deal wrapped up yet, once again burning up three days.
On every vote, including on constantly raised points of order, the Republicans should be objecting that the vote total is incomplete – the Democratic Chair will rule that it is complete and the Republicans then appeal and once again force a vote, delaying the process again and again.
The Republicans should be offering one amendment after another on all of their favorite issues such as guns, abortion, elimination of the death tax, ending the TARP program, and gay marriage in the District of Columbia. Nothing connotes trench warfare like non-germane amendments on hot-button social issues. When you look back at all of the great filibusters of past decades, they almost always involved non-germane, explosive amendments on contentious social and other issues. Republicans should be offering hundreds of such amendments on every topic and using the rules to force votes on every single one. And the Republicans should be forcing the reading of the bill and every single amendment, not consenting to waiving that requirement.
Some might argue that Republicans should not look “obstructionist.” But they are wrong – the vast majority of Americans don’t like this bill and don’t want it to pass. The Tea Party movement was the upheaval of millions of ordinary Americans who are scared and angry about the out-of-control growth of the federal government, federal spending, and the national debt. They want to see the Republicans obstructing passage of this bill and if they think the Republicans are not fighting with every tool they have at their disposal, then any advantage that the Republicans think they will get in next year’s elections from such a bill being passed will evaporate. Conservatives will mount challenges to what they see as weak Republicans, just like what happened in New York’s special congressional race, helping Democrats eek out wins. And other conservative will stay home (like they did in 2008) rather than support GOP incumbents who did not fight.
The view coming out of the Senate of the Republicans has the appearance of business-as-usual – colloquies, speeches, and unanimous consent agreements. It does not convey the sense of urgency that should come with an issue of this magnitude and it does not provide any assurance to the public, including most especially the conservative base that is the heart of the Republican Party, that Republican Senators are willing to do everything it takes to stop this bill. If they don’t starting acting forcefully quickly and immediately, not only will they allow the country’s future to be unalterably damaged, they will be hastening the end to their own careers in the elections coming down the road faster than they can imagine.
Finally, I often hear that Senators express frustration when we dare to tell them how to fight, and that their frequent refrain is “you just don’t understand how the Senate works.” Actually some of us understand better than they do how it should work (whether they agree with every particular parliamentary tactic described or not), and the current frustration they feel with us will be nothing like what they may feel if they don’t stop this bill at all costs and act to preserve our Republic.
The use of "unanimous consent" consent has been Dirty Harry's favorite method of getting his amendments inserted. The Republicans have allowed this trick to be used on them without even arguing. Now for unanimous consent you don't need anybody on the floor, at least a quorum and Senate rules say that a quorum is necessary to pass anything. They do the unanimous consent trick sometimes with no more than 4 Senators in attendance. Is that a quorum? Not really since a quorum is one over half and that would be 51.
You people are willing to watch Dirty Harry tear the heart out of this nation while he rams this thing that most people don't want through the Senate.
Is there one prog in this bunch that has any idea what is in this bill? Even Dem Senators don't know everything that Reid and his cohorts have inserted while they are still inserting without telling the rest what is going on.
Debate? Hell there is none of that going on from either side because Dirty doesn't want it to happen. He knows this abortion is dead if he allows it to be done. Now you point out to me how this republic remains in effect with all that is going on in this administration and on the floors of Congress. I need help and some of you aren't giving any of that but you whine so much about what is not going on that should be going on.
We need to see some marching of the order of left, right, left and not just left, left, left and so on.
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All progs who haven't bothered to read the article
