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- "The marketplace measurement in politics is something called an election," ... "And in 2006 and 2008, the marketplace was telling the Republicans 'We prefer the products and services of your competitors.'" ... the GOP "blew it" ... "We got fired for a reason" ...
- Party strategists have long acknowledged that the presidency of George W. Bush badly damaged the Republican brand....Pawlenty's critique is one of the first attempts by a likely 2012 Republican presidential candidate to gain distance from the personalities and policies of the Bush Administration....The danger for Pawlenty ... is that there remains a significant segment within the Republican base who still supports Bush and many of the policies he put into place.
IMO, that's a pretty good analysis by the writer at the WaPo, and echoes what many of us in these forums have said for a long time, that G.W.Bush was a DISASTER for our nation and that we need to move on and do better.
So, what do you think of Gov Pawlenty and his points of view?
Pawlenty and any GOP candidate will have to distance themselves from anything G W Bush, namely because President Obama has assumed many of Bush's policies. I mean look how often the phrase President Barack Bush or George W Obama gets used today.
On one hand, this is smart for Obama, as he has obviously positioned himself far to the right of where many in the GOP claim he is and where is the left going to go? Will Democrats run someone against Obama in 2012, I doubt it. So what does this leave for the GOP if not further to the right?
Many in Liberal circles may be spinning in their beds with anger each night, but are going to be reluctant to part with a Presidential victory no matter where this guy takes them. From a President who wants a second term it is smart, but for those who vote based in principled views, I hope they can see they have been take over the barrel and used like so many tools.
I don't even hate to say, I told you all so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques
I don't think Pawlenty can win the nomination that way. When you analyze the last election cycle, it's a fluke that McCain was nominated. In 2007 they wanted to read him out of the party for being insufficiently pro-torture. He only squeaked in because Romney and Huckabee split the far-right vote. Assuming that doesn't happen in the next cycle, I don't see any way for a Pawlenty to overcome the red-meat populism of a Palin or Huckabee.
I do think the GOP will have to find some form of populism with wide spread appeal far beyond white haired thumpers and cries of lower taxes. I don't think Palin or Huckabee fills this role as they are way too niche oriented.
As unsettled as many may be with Obama, there simply isn't enough organization or leadership within the GOP at the moment to take advantage of this. Personally, I think they might as well write off 2012 and focus on 2016, but stranger things have happened.
I hope his compadres don't label him a pinko traitor.
Currently, this is the biggest problem with the GOP, its puritanical nature of tossing anyone remotely out of lock step under the bus. When truth be known, they should be seeking out ways to increase party size in both Congressional seats and among voters.
While I understand their desire to purge and even need to, there are pragmatic issues to contend with first if they wish to remain viable in the near future. Hoping for the Obama administration and the Democrat Congress to screw up as a means of attracting people is pretty stupid and reactionary if you ask me.
Currently, this is the biggest problem with the GOP, its puritanical nature of tossing anyone remotely out of lock step under the bus. When truth be known, they should be seeking out ways to increase party size in both Congressional seats and among voters.
While I understand their desire to purge and even need to, there are pragmatic issues to contend with first if they wish to remain viable in the near future. Hoping for the Obama administration and the Democrat Congress to screw up as a means of attracting people is pretty stupid and reactionary if you ask me.
Ironic to see the once-upon-a-time "big tent" party is now ideologically little more than a narrowly defined parasol.
Not sure if any party should purge anyone, i.e., people join or vote for a party based upon a party's (alleged) set of principles or platform planks, which they often ignore after winning an election. Anyone should be welcome if they toe the bulk of the party line. If the GOP wants to boot out people who only toe "most" of the party line, then they've lost touch with reason, i.e., recent talk in some circles of "purity pledges" and the like.
It somewhat boggles my mind that the GOP would even consider kicking out a sitting Senator like Olympia Snowe of ME just because she a "moderate" on abortion. The DEMs or Libertarians would be glad to have such a purge victim.
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Well while the GOP is in melt down as a party, there is still a huge number of people who hold Republican styled views. While the Palin types might not consider them "real America", when it comes time to vote, those folks who view themselves as Republican will likely vote no matter who they throw up there. Party purges are nothing new and this one will pass like those before it. Just ask those Democrats about the 70's and 80's.
As always, the battle is for the middle, those swing voters, independents, moderate types and this is where the GOP loses. While many of these people may not even be happy with Obama, as I suspect there is a growing distaste for him among the general middle population, I very much doubt they are going to run to the right seeking a solution. After all, those in the middle also tend to be the most fickle, nuanced and informed of voters.
I'm willing to take a stab and say that if there is a remotely charismatic third party candidate, that they will collect larger numbers of voters than ever before. I'm not saying they would win, as that is unlikely but I just have this sense that many Americans are tired of establishment politics.
This is one reason I think Obama is driving so hard for the center, and even center right on some issues. by assuming this position and if he can hold such a position, then this forces the right to either offer a better plan, which they have been running short on ideas themselves or to move further right towards party purity and hope to return in force at a later cycle.
What I see this means to those folks who are from the hard left is that they are forced to come to grips with how their man moved and while they may not like it, I suspect many will vote on the basis of anything left of Republican is ok. They will do so with a bitter taste in their mouths and I see this as ultimately pushing the far left to also seek third party options.
Honestly, I think it is awesome as never before in my lifetime has there been a better opportunity for a viable third party shot at the White House, but I expect it will likely come from those with Libertarian inclinations more than say Greens, but who knows. I don't expect a third party victory by any means but even posting substantial numbers sets in motion future opportunities and I have to think long term.
The Republican party and conservatives in general are falling apart. They hold it together for a while, then decay some more, in spurts. Now the Tea Bag Party is complaining about the Republicans and Palin "infiltrating" "their" party, and the infighting is growing. Now a Republican governor speaks up - more and more you'll see Republicans and conservatives distancing themselves as much as they can from the failures of the Republican party and conservatism in general. Just look how they turned on Bush so quickly, then on McCain after he lost....conservatism is collapsing; hopefully, when it returns to some power, it will be reborn as the old fashioned type of conservativism, pre-1980, pre-Reagan, back to the Ike and Nixon days or earlier. Every Republican President before Reagan is rolling over in his grave at what they've turned the GOP and conservatism into, an anti-Christian, blasphemous, immoral group of selfish, self-entitled whiners.
The Republican party and conservatives in general are falling apart. They hold it together for a while, then decay some more, in spurts. Now the Tea Bag Party is complaining about the Republicans and Palin "infiltrating" "their" party, and the infighting is growing. Now a Republican governor speaks up - more and more you'll see Republicans and conservatives distancing themselves as much as they can from the failures of the Republican party and conservatism in general. Just look how they turned on Bush so quickly, then on McCain after he lost....conservatism is collapsing; hopefully, when it returns to some power, it will be reborn as the old fashioned type of conservativism, pre-1980, pre-Reagan, back to the Ike and Nixon days or earlier. Every Republican President before Reagan is rolling over in his grave at what they've turned the GOP and conservatism into, an anti-Christian, blasphemous, immoral group of selfish, self-entitled whiners.
All great truths begin as blasphemes! I think I even resemble some of that but thats another matter...
What I'm seeing are those elements on the right trying to redefine "conservatism", and while I agree this is alienating a lot of those grandma and grandpa types who are naturally inclined to be traditional and conservative by obfuscating its actual traditional definition. One that I have attempted on many occasions to point out and much to my surprise, how many people respond positively.
Once it has totally melted into a glob of goo and all those more spotlight seeking fringe members have faded, hopefully and likely, they will do what most political parties do after a massive slaughter and return to their roots and attempt to build upon ideas instead of rhetoric and reactionary denouncement.
America needs a GOP if for no other reason than to offer a counter point of view, as to me, nothing is more dangerous than one party (matters not which party) having full reign and rule with no one to say no.
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