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I think there's some type of global climate change going on but I don't think it's man made.
The earth is just doing what it has done over time..change and adjust. And we won't stop it no matter how hard world governments try.
You can't stop Mother Nature.
the pollutants we use and cause can create an unbalanced environment..
our air, water and so forth, ACID RAIN. we can ignore it all we want but the reason we ignore it is because we think it wont happen in our current lifetime it could happen in their granchildrens time and so forth..
and if there are haarp idiots trying to use or experiment natural disasters as a weapon thats gonna make it worse..<<--im just saying
Let's face it, obviously no one really knows what is going on in the global warming realm. One minute you hear people putting forth science FOR mad-made global warming with videos like "An Inconvenient Truth", the next people are debunking much of the so-called evidence, and scientists are coming forward to admit that their reports may not have been so accurate after all.
But the truth is, we don't really know for sure whether this whole issue exists or not. We don't have another earth that exists, with life forms who create factories that spew out CO2 that we can compare too. Time will only tell.
What I see on these boards is a turn completely AGAINST global warming, and the majority of people on here dismiss anything that says that we, as humans, are altering our planet. All of a sudden people seem to regard smoke stacks as harmless, and factories as well as their by-products as a neutral thing. So I ask you:
If man-made global warming is a hoax, do people not realize that regardless of whether CO2 is a "pollutant" or not, that it is not the only thing that comes out smoke stacks, or as a by-product of our various factories and refineries?
You can deny the greenhouse effect all you want, but you simply can't deny the smog in Bejing, the air quality of places like San Jose, or the fact that the run-off from the Mississippi River has created a huge dead-zone in the Gulf of Mexico that extends for literally hundreds of square miles.
Why are we all of a sudden dismissing the creation of green jobs and thinking it's ok to continue our disgusting and irresponsible pollution of this planet just because there is a debate going on that man-made global warming might be a hoax?
Am I the only one who thinks that maybe not dumping toxic waste into the very biosphere that created and sustains us is more important and significant then creating jobs or allowing us to continue our repulsive lifestyles of conspicuous consumption and excess?
100% agreement.
Meanwhile 3/4 of the responses here rail against global warming without ANY response to the multitude of other environmental issues you bring up.
Seriously, I wonder sometimes... People who are concerned that fishing grounds are drying up, the crab and lobster industries are dying in some locations and our waterways are cesspools are labelled as "tree-huggers" and discounted.
Why all this dumping into our waterways is a partisan issue is beyond me. I cannot believe that ANYONE is for this, even if allowing all this dumping saves big business millions...
I mean is it a philosophy of, "It's okay because it means that more people have jobs?". I really don't get it.
'All' what scientists? There was one who kept lousy records. Doesn't discount the data from other sources.
Considering it was the center for global data to which the IPCC relied heavily on, it was pretty significant. It also was more than 1 scientist as it was several who had varying influences. Jones was the one, Briffa's incompetence with checking the data he used (tree ring data), the collusion of them to block research that didn't agree with them. The manipulation of records and results that were used in the IPCC's report. There is Mann's work which is a BIG issue.
Also, the two other repositories of station data are in terrible shape missing large chunks of data and being pulled from a network that is in severe shape.
Also, there were accusation right after the incident of the MET Office using strong arm tactics to get signatures in support of AGW.
There has also been some resignations due to researchers who are fed up with the politics of the science foundations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24
It should also be repeatedly mentioned that the emails in question were hacked and stolen. No one has ever proven to my satisfaction that they weren't edited before being released.
Actually it has not been shown that it was stolen. In fact, the current investigation at the CRU has been unable to even find any support that it was stolen. If you know networking, it is virtually impossible for a hacker to not leave a trace. The evidence suggests that is was more likely an insider who leaked it.
As for the alter of the information, this has been lain to rest a long time ago. The fact is that the data and emails are so extensively cross referenced, that it would be impossible for an army of hackers with an enormous amount of time to alter them without issue. It is impossible for it to be done. Nobody is arguing this one and in fact, those implicated are not contesting alteration, they are simply making a case for "out of context" and they are doing a very poor job of it. The house is crumbling, it is just that the US media is not covering it. Look into the science realms and you can see what is really going on.
And for the fact of them being stolen... irrelevant unless they were altered and we already dealt with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24
As for the President's plan being a 'sick' document? What does that even mean? Do you have any idea the increased incidence of environmental-related disease - asthma, certain types of cancers, thyroid disease - the list goes on. We live in a very 'sick' world right now. The President deserves every chance to make it better.
Based on epidemiological collections that speculate correlations and provide no conclusive findings.
You don't start plugging a leak if you have no idea where it is or if there is one in the first place. Legislation should have no part in this, nothing has been conclusive or even close to an understanding to take "action".
More fear mongering. People are finally wiseing up to your (and your ilk's) tactics.
This whole global warming scam had some vunerable people so suck in it became a religion for them. They are , obsessed with visions of a flooding world and being swept out to sea
Let's face it, obviously no one really knows what is going on in the global warming realm. One minute you hear people putting forth science FOR mad-made global warming with videos like "An Inconvenient Truth", the next people are debunking much of the so-called evidence, and scientists are coming forward to admit that their reports may not have been so accurate after all.
But the truth is, we don't really know for sure whether this whole issue exists or not. We don't have another earth that exists, with life forms who create factories that spew out CO2 that we can compare too. Time will only tell.
What I see on these boards is a turn completely AGAINST global warming, and the majority of people on here dismiss anything that says that we, as humans, are altering our planet. All of a sudden people seem to regard smoke stacks as harmless, and factories as well as their by-products as a neutral thing. So I ask you:
If man-made global warming is a hoax, do people not realize that regardless of whether CO2 is a "pollutant" or not, that it is not the only thing that comes out smoke stacks, or as a by-product of our various factories and refineries?
You can deny the greenhouse effect all you want, but you simply can't deny the smog in Bejing, the air quality of places like San Jose, or the fact that the run-off from the Mississippi River has created a huge dead-zone in the Gulf of Mexico that extends for literally hundreds of square miles.
Why are we all of a sudden dismissing the creation of green jobs and thinking it's ok to continue our disgusting and irresponsible pollution of this planet just because there is a debate going on that man-made global warming might be a hoax?
Am I the only one who thinks that maybe not dumping toxic waste into the very biosphere that created and sustains us is more important and significant then creating jobs or allowing us to continue our repulsive lifestyles of conspicuous consumption and excess?
Good point ... unlike manmade global warming (which I believe is tiny ... less than 5% of total global warming, which itself has been exaggerated), pollution is a very real issue, and needs to be factored into all policy decisions.
But the green side of the debate also needs to be aware that restraining the economy also has very real costs ... maybe a bit of inconvenience here in the U.S.A, but maybe a matter of life and death for the hungry and poor of the world.
For real green issues like pollution, the optimal policy is probably somewhere in the middle of the green vs. economic growth extremes.
Time Magazine's article on the Science of global COOLING...the RETURN OF THE ICE AGE!
This notion of the return of an ice age is still valid. Thank you for posting an article that provides strong evidence for anthropogenic global warming.
In the absence of human activity (the effects of which weren't understood in the 1970s), the earth should be cooling. The fact that it is warming is not explained by ANY natural trend as claimed by skeptics.
There are a number of posts in this thread that question whether CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Of course it is! Simple experiments can demonstrate this. It's a fact, not an opinion. It isn't even a "theory." It's demonstrable through experimentation and there's no evidence to refute it.
Likewise, water vapor and methane are powerful greenhouse gases, moreso than CO2. All three of these gases have been rising. Water vapor and methane increases are partially due to feedback loops --- a warmer planet means that there's more evaporation, more water can be held in the atmosphere, and more sources of long-sequestered methane are being released into the air.
Nearly every recent study of the planet's warming (sciencedaily.com) that I've seen has been about how the predicted rise in temperature and melting of ice is happening much faster than computer models predicted. In other words, global warming is probably worse and is happening at a faster rate than previously thought. But in the least-educated industrial nation on earth, the US of A, people are increasingly likely to deny the possibility that humans are changing the climate. We can thank Fox News and the religious right for promoting the demise of science education in our land.
I'm OK with the idea of energy independence and I'm OK with 'green technology' and using energy more efficiently, etc., but what I'm NOT OK with is a bunch of politicians working out a grand wealth redistribution scheme in the name of 'climate change.'
yup.
this president might be surprised how much better received an argument for energy independence would be, as opposed to cap & tax global warming hysterics.
Keep in mind-CO2 is your exhale also. Makes you wonder how there going to cut down on that?
Fire away--I'm off to work.
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