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Old 02-27-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,756,161 times
Reputation: 3587

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One of the things that sets me apart from the conservatives and Republicans is the fact that I support a strong central government and much weaker state and local governments. As I have pointed out, the 10th Amendment has long outlived its usefulness (which is why it is pretty much ignored by all 3 branches of government) and it was written in a time when travel, mobility, mass communications and even roads and automobiles were unheard of. I gave this some thought as I heard a radio talk show on the subject of local gun bans, CCW permits and the case of the DC gun ban heard in the Supreme Court (a decision is expected this year).
As I have pointed out many times I am a LIBERAL but on this issue, I guess I would be considered to be a conservative because I am in support of the right of non felon adults to own- and if trained in the safe and legal use of guns- to carry openly or concealed. I am a standing member of the NRA who supports what I see as a Constitutional right to maintain and carry arms which to me is as important a right as is the right to free speech, free press and freedom to worship the God of your choice or no God at all (which is why I am also a member of the ACLU).
I am one who thinks the court case should be decided in favour of the 2nd Amendment and that YES the Constitution DOES apply to states and local governments. Normally such a position would put me at odds with conservatives who believe that states are supreme to the Federal (state's rights).
As I considered this case, to bolster my argument in favour of a strong central government, I did a little research on CCW laws in the USA which have largely been left to states and local governments. The results are that such laws are in total dissarray, constantly changing (what is legal now may not be tomorrow) and, if you are planning to drive across the country with your favourite firearm, you had better hire a legal researcher to plan your route for you because of the mess of state and local laws and reciprocity issues. Here you can kind of visualize the mess:
CCWlist
I would challenge any of you conservatives to tell me why this is good. What would the country look like if driver's licenses were treated like CCW permits? Let's see, my Georgia license is good for Alabama and Mississippi but not good in Texas. I can drive with it in Oklahoma but not in the city of Tulsa. I can get another driver's license in Utah without being a resident that will allow me to drive through Colorado.
It is my belief that we would be much better off with a Federal law that would give standards (such as training course content, no felony convictions, no mental hospitalization in the past 5 years ect) that would be uniform across the United States giving the right to carry to anybody who has met those standards.
Like driver's licenses, states could have more liberal laws- such as South Dakota has allowing a full license at age 14- for use in their own state but a minimum standard (age 16) applies nationwide to driver's licenses. A 16 year old may get into a car and drive from Seattle to Miami thanks to a STRONG Federal government. Too bad a 25 year old truck driver has to worry about where he drives with his .38 special.
Another area that is specifically a "state's rights" thing is alcohol. Thanks to the 21st Amendment carved out an exception to the Commerce Clause and allows states and local governments all power over alcohol. Is this a good idea? Hardly. Right now, you have freight carriers that refuse to even carry shipments of wine or beer because the laws of 50 states make it almost impossible to do so. UPS and FedEx search for wine shipments and destroy them when found.
Wine Without Borders » Blog Archive » Why Won’t Michigan Ask Questions About Wine Shipping?
Even airplanes 30,000 feet up have to be careful about serving over "dry" counties. And don't even think about getting caught with a few cases of brew in your trunk crossing state lines.
As a result, you have a system of "distributors" in each state that, if in any other business, would be in jail. This legal system of corruption and monopoly control would make a Mafia don wince! If you live in this state, you can have brand X of beer and if you live in that state you get brand Y. I am sure most of you saw "Smoky And The Bandit". How dare they ship Coors over the Mississippi River!
Now, please just imagine if states could do this with everything. Your milk, cheese, butter, bread- even cars and trucks controlled by state distributors and anything made out of state banned. You want a car? Well you got to buy one built in Georgia! You want milk? It has to come from a farm in Georgia!
Think about what this would do to business in the country. It would virtually come to a stand still. Thank God the Commerce Clause does not allow this with anything but alcohol!
Conservatives love to chant "state's rights" but when you look closely, you really see what a great thing a strong central government is to the country and its people.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,091,967 times
Reputation: 2971
Just a quick note...a Texas CCW permit...has reciprocity in GA and vice versa. Just a little FYI. And by the way...about 70% of the country has reciprocity laws with other CCW States, in some form or manner.

Not that I'm a conservative, or anything...just like to blow holes in things.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,756,161 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Just a quick note...a Texas CCW permit...has reciprocity in GA and vice versa. Just a little FYI. And by the way...about 70% of the country has reciprocity laws with other CCW States, in some form or manner.

Not that I'm a conservative, or anything...just like to blow holes in things.
Did you look at the chart? OK, for example, if I want to drive from Georgia to Las Vegas- which we will be doing this year, I find that I can make it through most of states safe until I reach New Mexico which does not honour a Georgia CCW permit. I would then be safe in Arizona but a criminal in Nevada which does not honour a Georgia permit. So I then have to cut across to Utah which will issue me a non resident permit that Nevada will honour. However when I cross into Nevada, I must avoid the cities of Boulder and North Las Vegas until I can get a Nevada non resident permit.
Do you see the mess the country would be in if this applied to everything?
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:16 AM
 
30,059 posts, read 18,656,690 times
Reputation: 20864
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
One of the things that sets me apart from the conservatives and Republicans is the fact that I support a strong central government and much weaker state and local governments. As I have pointed out, the 10th Amendment has long outlived its usefulness (which is why it is pretty much ignored by all 3 branches of government) and it was written in a time when travel, mobility, mass communications and even roads and automobiles were unheard of. I gave this some thought as I heard a radio talk show on the subject of local gun bans, CCW permits and the case of the DC gun ban heard in the Supreme Court (a decision is expected this year).
As I have pointed out many times I am a LIBERAL but on this issue, I guess I would be considered to be a conservative because I am in support of the right of non felon adults to own- and if trained in the safe and legal use of guns- to carry openly or concealed. I am a standing member of the NRA who supports what I see as a Constitutional right to maintain and carry arms which to me is as important a right as is the right to free speech, free press and freedom to worship the God of your choice or no God at all (which is why I am also a member of the ACLU).
I am one who thinks the court case should be decided in favour of the 2nd Amendment and that YES the Constitution DOES apply to states and local governments. Normally such a position would put me at odds with conservatives who believe that states are supreme to the Federal (state's rights).
As I considered this case, to bolster my argument in favour of a strong central government, I did a little research on CCW laws in the USA which have largely been left to states and local governments. The results are that such laws are in total dissarray, constantly changing (what is legal now may not be tomorrow) and, if you are planning to drive across the country with your favourite firearm, you had better hire a legal researcher to plan your route for you because of the mess of state and local laws and reciprocity issues. Here you can kind of visualize the mess:
CCWlist
I would challenge any of you conservatives to tell me why this is good. What would the country look like if driver's licenses were treated like CCW permits? Let's see, my Georgia license is good for Alabama and Mississippi but not good in Texas. I can drive with it in Oklahoma but not in the city of Tulsa. I can get another driver's license in Utah without being a resident that will allow me to drive through Colorado.
It is my belief that we would be much better off with a Federal law that would give standards (such as training course content, no felony convictions, no mental hospitalization in the past 5 years ect) that would be uniform across the United States giving the right to carry to anybody who has met those standards.
Like driver's licenses, states could have more liberal laws- such as South Dakota has allowing a full license at age 14- for use in their own state but a minimum standard (age 16) applies nationwide to driver's licenses. A 16 year old may get into a car and drive from Seattle to Miami thanks to a STRONG Federal government. Too bad a 25 year old truck driver has to worry about where he drives with his .38 special.
Another area that is specifically a "state's rights" thing is alcohol. Thanks to the 21st Amendment carved out an exception to the Commerce Clause and allows states and local governments all power over alcohol. Is this a good idea? Hardly. Right now, you have freight carriers that refuse to even carry shipments of wine or beer because the laws of 50 states make it almost impossible to do so. UPS and FedEx search for wine shipments and destroy them when found.
Wine Without Borders » Blog Archive » Why Won’t Michigan Ask Questions About Wine Shipping?
Even airplanes 30,000 feet up have to be careful about serving over "dry" counties. And don't even think about getting caught with a few cases of brew in your trunk crossing state lines.
As a result, you have a system of "distributors" in each state that, if in any other business, would be in jail. This legal system of corruption and monopoly control would make a Mafia don wince! If you live in this state, you can have brand X of beer and if you live in that state you get brand Y. I am sure most of you saw "Smoky And The Bandit". How dare they ship Coors over the Mississippi River!
Now, please just imagine if states could do this with everything. Your milk, cheese, butter, bread- even cars and trucks controlled by state distributors and anything made out of state banned. You want a car? Well you got to buy one built in Georgia! You want milk? It has to come from a farm in Georgia!
Think about what this would do to business in the country. It would virtually come to a stand still. Thank God the Commerce Clause does not allow this with anything but alcohol!
Conservatives love to chant "state's rights" but when you look closely, you really see what a great thing a strong central government is to the country and its people.

The basic presumption of state's rights is that citizens living in a particular region are best equipped to decide what is best for them in that region. It is similar to not wanting to be ruled by the King of England. Did they go over that bit in your education?
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Old 02-28-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: California
37,131 posts, read 42,196,846 times
Reputation: 35007
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
The basic presumption of state's rights is that citizens living in a particular region are best equipped to decide what is best for them in that region. It is similar to not wanting to be ruled by the King of England. Did they go over that bit in your education?
There is a difference with the regions are all part of the same government with the same set of citizens. I remember learning that.
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