Clinton Surplus Myth... (cost, compared, supporter, constitutional)

[rhinestone]

Originally Posted by pghquest

And using YOUR example, if GE Capital LOANS GE Power system $5B, does GE Power Systems have a SURPLUS?

NO THEY DONT.. They have operating funds, but NOT a surplus..

Yes, very simple accounting, which you seem to be ignoring.

GE overall has a surplus, which is also true for the country from 1998 through 2001. Thanks for proving my point. Once we were using accounting I won.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by rhinestone

GE overall has a surplus, which is also true for the country from 1998 through 2001. Thanks for proving my point. Once we were using accounting I won.

Having operating funds does not indicate a SURPLUS if its BORROWED funds. You not only ignored the point, but now you pretend you won when the example very clearly shows you havent.

Thanks for the humor today because its like arguing with my 9 year old like I previously mentioned.. "But dad, I'll get money on my birthday which is in May, I must have money to go buy candy today.. Can you LOAN me the money until May, I have it!?"

[calipoppy]

The Republicans also want us to think of the years 2000-2008 as a myth too!

That or they want us all to develop selective amnesia

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by rhinestone

GE overall has a surplus, which is also true for the country from 1998 through 2001. Thanks for proving my point. Once we were using accounting I won.

Ooh hell, It just hit me that you completely missed YOUR OWN argument because you are now proclaiming that what matters is the OVERALL total. THATS exactly what we have been saying.

Clinton ONLY counted GE Capital as profits when he proclaimed "surpluses", he ignored EVERYTHING ELSE.. Lets do the math using YOUR example..

GE Power systems has a loss(deficit) $3.5 Billion
GE Capital has a profit(surplus) $7.8 Billion <---- This is what Clinton claimed as a "profit", ignoring everything else
GE Corporate has a profit(surplus) of $4.3 Billion <---- This is the figure you NOW claim is important..

Now lets use the REAL numbers as they equate to the federal government for the year 2000
GE Power systems has a loss(deficit) $300 Billion (social security)
GE Capital has a surplus(profit) $234 Billion (operating fund) <---- This is what Clinton claimed as a "profit", ignoring everything else

GE Corporate has a loss(deficit) of $66 Billion (total government budget) <---- This is the figure you NOW claim is important..

You are NOW agreeing with us, using YOUR own example, that there WAS NO SURPLUS.

[rhinestone]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Having operating funds does not indicate a SURPLUS if its BORROWED funds. You not only ignored the point, but now you pretend you won when the example very clearly shows you havent.

Thanks for the humor today because its like arguing with my 9 year old like I previously mentioned.. "But dad, I'll get money on my birthday which is in May, I must have money to go buy candy today.. Can you LOAN me the money until May, I have it!?"

Nobody's talking about operating funds. We are talking receipts and expenses. You keep getting confused.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by rhinestone

Nobody's talking about operating funds. We are talking receipts and expenses. You keep getting confused.

WRONG. Clinton BORROWED money from multiple budgets into the operating budget.. Thats how he claimed a surplus!

You dont get to borrow money and then claim you made money because the money is borrowed. ANYONE who knows basic accounting knows this fact..

I cant borrow $50M a year for 10 years and then claim that my company is worth $500M (cap 10 rate) because I was able to borrow $500M over a 10 year period if I used this money to buy piles of **** and cant pay back the debt..

[rhinestone]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Ooh hell, It just hit me that you completely missed YOUR OWN argument because you are now proclaiming that what matters is the OVERALL total. THATS exactly what we have been saying.

Clinton ONLY counted GE Capital as profits when he proclaimed "surpluses", he ignored EVERYTHING ELSE.. Lets do the math using YOUR example..

GE Power systems has a loss(deficit) $3.5 Billion
GE Capital has a profit(surplus) $7.8 Billion <---- This is what Clinton claimed as a "profit", ignoring everything elseWrong
GE Corporate has a profit(surplus) of $4.3 Billion <---- This is the figure you NOW claim is important..This is what CBO and OMB claim is a surplus

Now lets use the REAL numbers as they equate to the federal government for the year 2000
GE Power systems has a loss(deficit) $300 Billion (social security)
GE Capital has a surplus(profit) $234 Billion (operating fund) <---- This is what Clinton claimed as a "profit", ignoring everything else

GE Corporate has a loss(deficit) of $66 Billion (total government budget) <---- This is the figure you NOW claim is important..

You are NOW agreeing with us, using YOUR own example, that there WAS NO SURPLUS.

Your facts are just wrong.

Taking one year 2001
Revenues 1,991.1
Outlays 1,862.9
Total Surplus 128.2

On Budget Surplus -32.4
Social Security Surplus 163.0
USPS Surplus -2.3
Total Surplus 128.2

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by rhinestone

Your facts are just wrong.

Taking one year 2001
Revenues 1,991.1
Outlays 1,862.9
Total Surplus 128.2

On Budget Surplus -32.4
Social Security Surplus 163.0
USPS Surplus -2.3
Total Surplus 128.2

No, YOUR facts are just plain wrong. The CBO never proclaimed the TOTAL budget ran surpluses, just the operating budget, and ONLY as a PERCENTAGE of of GDP. The OMB IS the White House.. Their words mean NOTHING to me..

THIS is the federal treasury who tracks the federal debt, WHAT YEAR was there a surplus?
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2009

[rhinestone]

Originally Posted by pghquest

No, YOUR facts are just plain wrong. The CBO never proclaimed the TOTAL budget ran surpluses, just the operating budget, and ONLY as a PERCENTAGE of of GDP. The OMB IS the White House.. Their words mean NOTHING to me..

THIS is the federal treasury who tracks the federal debt, WHAT YEAR was there a surplus?
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2009

Here is the file (http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:GYIIJKiIkuMJ:www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/Historicaltables2010Jan_forweb.XLS+Historicaltable s2010Jan_forweb.XLS&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us - broken link) that contradicts exactly what you just said. See Table F-1

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by rhinestone

Here is the file (http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:GYIIJKiIkuMJ:www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/Historicaltables2010Jan_forweb.XLS+Historicaltable s2010Jan_forweb.XLS&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us - broken link) that contradicts exactly what you just said. See Table F-1

That chart EXCLUDES intragovernmental holdings and the OFF budget items.. WHERE ARE THEY? Thats like claiming the Iraq/Afghanistan war didnt add to the debt because they were OFF budget expenses.. ridiculous...

Originally Posted by pghquest

No, YOUR facts are just plain wrong. The CBO never proclaimed the TOTAL budget ran surpluses, just the operating budget, and ONLY as a PERCENTAGE of of GDP. The OMB IS the White House.. Their words mean NOTHING to me..

THIS is the federal treasury who tracks the federal debt, WHAT YEAR was there a surplus?
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2009

Not able to answer?

One minute you claim the TOTAL balance is whats important, and then when I point out that the TOTAL balance results in deficits, you resort to just looking at PART of the budget..

p.s. the Post office budgets has NOTHING to do with the federal government, so entering this into the discussion shows the lack of education on the subject.