Big Government, Oppression of Americancs vs small government... (salary, healthcare, independent)

[hskrfan2187]

Before I start this thread I just want to say that this will be my opinion and how I view things. So my point of this thread is to see what other people (whether you agree or disagree with me) think. But I want to know why you think that way (i.e. facts or basic economic principles as to why you think your viewpoint is true). So please don't turn this into a pissing contest, lets keep to a discussion with facts, and common sense thinking (not dramatic opinions that have no merit). With that said, here's the thread...

So I'm trying to figure out why some people are for bigger government. As the government grows, it continually oppresses the American people while making us more dependent on the government. Some may say (no we're just increasing taxes on the "rich") but here me out. As you increase taxes on everyone except those in the lower tax brackets, you now push people from the upper tier to the lower tier (as far as buying power and financial security within our economy). So wouldn't this mean that you are making it harder for people, in the lower income tax bracket, to succeed? If you are pushing some of the upper middle class into the lower middle class, it now makes it harder for people to become financially independent and live the American dream. Is this not correct? So while Democrats are trying to say that they are making things fair, they are really just hurting those that are already in the lower end of the economy because it will make it even harder for them to climb out of their hole (all the while they are pushing even more people into this hole). So I bring you this quote from one of the founding fathers:
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." - Patrick Henry

Ok, now lets talk about government program vs. private programs. Some democrats I know try telling me that they don't fear the government, they fear the private enterprise that has too much power...ok, this makes sense until you look deeper. First, lets assume the government will not allow a monopoly to exist (as history has shown, it will not). So assuming this, private companies create competition. Why are private companies in business? They are in business because they offer a product/service that people want/need. Well if the people don't want/need it they simply won't buy it.

Now, lets assume it's something they truly need like food (so we'll use a grocery store as an example). Some people may say they would rather the government be in charge because they won't screw the american people like a private company that is just wanting to create profits. But where do profits come from? They come from a company that offers a great product, or a product for a cheap price. If they don't offer these then the consumer will not buy from them, thus they will go out of business and the next grocery store (who offers better products at a better price) will take over their customers. So, now we see that in order for a company to stay in business they MUST meet the needs of the people who buy their product/service, otherwise the customer will just go to a similar store that offers a better product or a cheaper product.

Now lets look if the government ran the grocery stores in our country. The first thing we notice is there is no competition. The government doesn't have to compete with anybody so they have no reason to change prices or create a better product. All the employees of this government grocery store are getting paid on salary whether they do a bad job or good job, so the customer service will be lacking as well as displays within the store, etc. So now you say, yeah but the government will be cheaper because they don't need to create a profit. Well since they aren't looking for a profit, what happens when they have a bad revenue year and still have to pay employees, utility bills, etc? They increase taxes, and there's no control over it because they're the government. They don't care that this grocery store is being run inefficiently, or that employees are slacking, because they aren't in it to create a profitable business. They just want to offer this "security" to the American people. What is this security? That everybody will be given cheap groceries, because that's what we deserve. Well indirectly you end up paying more for those groceries because taxes begin to increase due to the inefficiencies of how this government branch is run. Or, they offer an inferior product to deal with this lack of revenue stream (if this company was run in the free markets as a private business they would look for changes to become profitable/offer a better product of they would go bankrupt). Of course the government can do what they want, so if they don't want to go bankrupt they can just oppress the American people more, in order to keep the program afloat.

Now, I would like to give you another quote:
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin

Every major branch that the government has created has been run into bankruptcy (at least by normal business principles). When a private company goes bankrupt due to it being run poorly with no care as to how the employees act, they are weeded out of the system so that a stronger, better run business can take its place. When this happens to the government, they simply lower payments out to other people, or they raise taxes, when in reality they should just do away with the program. These main examples are medicare, medicaid, and social security. The difference now, is if they were to do away with them people that depend on these programs would be extremely upset. Well there was a time when people didn't depend on these programs but we have now integrated them into the system (i.e. taken away a few freedoms through oppression by promising the American people a little more security).

Having said these things I now want to offer another quote from one of our founding fathers:
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " - Thomas Jefferson

Before ending this I want to touch on the healthcare overhaul real quick. I have found about 40+ health insurance companies that now exist within the US. All 40+ of these companies are competing for YOUR business. They want to provide the cheapest possible price while still allowing for them to be profitable. Because if they provide a cheaper price than all the other health insurance companies, then they will get more business, thus they will grow and prosper. So can you honestly tell me that if there wasn't an efficient way to lower health insurance, that one of these companies would not have already come up with that solution? Well the answer is there isn't, and it's no ones fault. Some may blame it on the drs. taking too much money, well lets be honest. Why would you go through 8 years of school and another 2+ years of a residency (all of this before you start making real money) if you could make the same salary with a bachelors degree right out of college? Well you wouldnt, nobody would become a Dr. and waste all their money going through school when they could have made just as much without paying for all of that schooling. The problem is we have become so innovative and have so many new technologies in the healthcare industry that they are expensive to implement, thus higher health insurance costs.

One last quote:
"Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master." - Dwight D. Eisenhower


After reading all of this, do you agree (and you can expand if you want) or do you disagree? If you disagree I want to honestly hear what your train of thought is behind this (i.e. good economic reasons/facts as to why your reasoning is better in your mind).

[Venture]

You are right, many people today who hope for big government, are only wishing to push us into poverty. Just to add on to some of the points you have already made. For those who look for the government to provide their every need, and desire for big government. If the government to over everything and I mean everything, what would happen to the United States. How long would it take before everyone hit hardtimes. Just keep in mind that the goverment don't have to make a profit it only has to ensure you receive all that is due to you. So we have to eat everyday, we have to drive and do what we always do. So when we buy food, and consume all the other goods and services that the private sector use to do for profit. Since the goverment again don't have to worry about a profit. Wink wink, it has to replace each items use and consumed, and since there is no profit, in order to replace the item it cost. And well after awhile the cost will have to go up, or risk not having the item to buy. So this goes for cars, gas, food, health, and so on. Get the picture, its the profits that enables those who run the business to reinvest and continue to provide for our needs, its the profit that allows them to hire and give pay raises. So while many people are out their trying to make making a profit sound bad, wake up see the big picture, we will end up like a third world country if we let the government take over. Some times it right that governmnet step in but to allow government to take over and tell us what we can and can't do is giving them power to control us more then we intend. The bigger the government and the more power you give them the less you have. It may not seem like much but a little here a little there adds up to big. And the government is taking more and more control, just a little bit at a time. And before you know it total control.