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You already pay state and local taxes plus your federal tax For me - 20 percent on anything you buy new.
Gas Tax - good question - since a large part of what we pay for gas goes to both State and Federal. I'd categorize it as fair tax.
In other words, people in Dallas area would pay about 29% in taxes to buy anything. Of that, 20% will go to the Federal government. Now, not everything is taxed, currently (for example, produce). So, would it be taxed now? In other words, items currently tax free in a state would now be taxed.
And, how did we come up with 20% federal sales tax? Why not 15% or 30%?
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You wouldn't need deductions for family/children - you wouldn't be filing an IRS tax form. Help's take away the incentive to have more children just for that tax deduction
Or giving to the charity, getting married and having children at all...
It will also discourage a lot of investment programs, which currently help in deductions.
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Maybe you should buy your goods from within the US
The affect on import goods might not be good under the fair tax - the other hand - might promote international companies moving to US.
How? Are you proposing importation taxes? Explain this one.
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Today, when companies sell, they have already embedded in their prices more than $1 trillion of annual tax-related costs. Hopefully, fewer American companies would outsource their production of goods and services as a result of a Fair Tax.
Good faith does not work in unregulated free market. Plenty of companies outsource jobs and facilities for reasons well beyond taxes. Giving them tax cuts won't bring the jobs back. They will pocket that money (or invest it overseas) and still outsource. If I ran a business currently planning to outsource a part of it to another country, tell me what reason I would have to stop from doing that if I got a tax cuts or didn't have taxes to pay?
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Really though for a Fair Tax to be in place - you'd need a balanced budget amendment in place - otherwise they could keep just upping what percentage they want us to pay.
That will happen regardless. It happens with local/state taxes regularly.
That was not my limit nor did I set it. That was the limit proposed by Steve Forbes. Dick Armey's limit was slightly lower. So no, I didn't pull any numbers out of "thin air". Did you miss me cite Forbes name or something?
Dick Armey... LOL. Thats a lot of thin air.
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Yes, you did miss the point yet once again. The point is that I tire of hearing people complain that the rich don't pay enough. The numbers I posted are from the IRS and make it clear that they do indeed pay a whole lot of money. When you said "So, that someone else is paying 20 times more in taxes than you. How about you match them, and pay as much? Can you do that?", I am in agreement with you.
The idea behind my post, that makes you think I didn't "get it", was not what you think it is. I said... it was meant to provide a perspective to your numbers.
To go back to my simplified illustration using numbers, do you feel $25K lays a greater burden on someone who makes $100K compared to $500K on someone who makes $10 million? Yes?
That doesn't sound correct. What would be more likely is 17% on amounts above $40,000. That way, you don't go from paying nothing to paying $6,800 once that threshold is crossed. And besides, $6,800 is a higher tax that someone would pay on $40,000 in 2009. I don't imagine that those were the actual brackets proposed in 1996.
That is what Forbes had proposed....17% on incomes above $40,000 (his original plan was an exemption on the first $36,000).
The idea behind my post, that makes you think I didn't "get it", was not what you think it is. I said... it was meant to provide a perspective to your numbers.
To go back to my simplified illustration using numbers, do you feel $25K lays a greater burden on someone who makes $100K compared to $500K on someone who makes $10 million? Yes?
Ok, now what you said makes more sense. The way you stated it led me to believe you were saying something else.
Yes, it does and all the more reason for a flat tax. If a person making 10 million is only paying 5% due to loopholes and creative tax attorneys when they are actually in the 35% tax bracket, then yes...you are correct. It is more of a burden. However, are most people in the 25% tax bracket actually paying 25% of gross income? No, because after deductions, credits and so on, we are not paying our full tax bracket amount as well.
Again, all the more reason for a flat tax.
Last edited by Fullback32; 04-06-2010 at 04:28 PM..
Ok, now what you said makes more sense. The way you stated it led me to believe you were saying something else.
Yes, it does and all the more reason for a flat tax. If a person making 10 million is only paying 5% due to loopholes and creative tax attorneys when they are actually in the 35% tax bracket, then yes...you are correct.
Again, all the more reason for a flat tax.
If the sole reason for flat tax is to ensure that the rich don't find a loophole and avoid paying taxes, then I'm for it. Although, I also see another side to it... the poor or people who barely make their ends meet. Flat tax is regressive and it will lay a greater burden on those who live pay check to pay check.
I hate when people who barely pay anything have an opinion about taxes. I can buy a brand new car every year with what gets taken out of my income through taxes, anybody who doesn't should just shut the f*** up.
Again, it must be emphasized that the flat tax proposals that have been forwarded have an exemption for those making $40,000/year (Forbes) and $37,000 (Armey), so what you're saying does not apply.
The current bill before the Senate is S.741: Flat Tax Act of 2009. Senator Arlen Specter is the Bill's Sponsor. It is somewhat different thatn what Forbes and Armey proposed.
No, what I'm saying does still apply, the logic remains the same. Ten percent of someone who makes 40,000/year is still far more important to them than 10% of a someone who makes 1,000,000/year, especially considering the cost of living in many parts of this country. The poorer you are, the more each dollar means to you, the more important each dollar is for your purchasing power, for meeting your basic needs.
If I was dictator, the income tax structure I'd implement would look something like this:
Your first $15,000 of income isn't taxed.
Your income from 15,001 to 25,000 is taxed at 5%.
Your income from 25,001 to 40,000 is taxed at 10%
Your income from 40,001 to 60,000 is taxed at 15%
Your income from 60,001 to 80,000 is taxed at 20%.
Your income from 80,001 to 100,000 is taxed at 30%.
Your income from 100,001 to 125,000 is taxed at 35%.
Your income from 125,001 to 150,000 is taxed at 40%.
Your income from 150,001 to 200,000 is taxed at 45%.
Your income from 200,001 to 300,000 is taxed at 50%.
Your income from 300,001 to 1,000,000 is taxed at 55%.
Income above 1,000,000 is taxed at 60%.
And what if my life doesn't revolve around money? What if my income isn't even sufficient to pay your 'life tax' and still eat?
Would you throw me in prison and support me, or would you just take me to a trench somewhere and put a bullet through my head?
How about this revolutionary idea: everyone pays for the SERVICES THEY USE. Why should I fund some moron who p**ses in a bottle and calls it art? Why should I fund any of the BS that is of no value to anyone besides the leech wasting the money?
I think you would be surprised how much money you'd gain on your check, if you took out all of the other BS taxes you pay on a regular basis.
Did you know on your phone bill, you're still paying for WWII? Did you know that in many states, you pay taxes every year, on things you've already bought, paid for, and paid taxes on once?
Double dipping is what I say.
And if you can't afford to pay taxes, generally, there is some type of government service to make up the difference. Sure, you can't buy everything you want, but you can afford what you need.
Then you better go with the Fair Tax rather than the flat tax. My biggest concern with the Fair Tax is that, once instituted, Congress would bring back the income tax in addition to the National sales tax (Fair Tax). Now, we would be stuck with both. Of course, nothing is stopping them from instituting it on top of the income tax we have now, but I think it would be more difficult for them to do so. Trust me, I would prefer the Fair Tax and just keep all the money I earn. Tax as I spend. My mistrust of the Federal government keeps me wary of it though.
Ah, but wouldn't you still be paying taxes to your state and locality in the form of sales taxes, property taxes, etc? The Federal government needs to butt out of state and local matters. By going back to just those things enumerated to it per the Constitution, your state and local taxes would cover most of what you are talking about., so no need to feel like a leech.
Fair tax is even worse. Lets say Chris makes 30,000 a year. He has to pay taxes on 100% of his income, just to get by.
I make over 75,000 a year, and don't need 100% of my income to get by. I get to keep getting richer, because I'm not having to pay taxes on all of my income.
Fair tax is even worse. Lets say Chris makes 30,000 a year. He has to pay taxes on 100% of his income, just to get by.
I make over 75,000 a year, and don't need 100% of my income to get by. I get to keep getting richer, because I'm not having to pay taxes on all of my income.
Something similar in the Fair Tax Fraud Link: FairTax Fallout
Will have to research all they said
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