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You asked a vague question so the replies by default can only be vague generalizations.
While property ownership in itself relinquishes a certain amount of liberty, it is a loss that is chosen and a liberty than can be regained at any time at will.
Freedom (in my opinion) is being able to do stuff with the least amount of restrictions on the condition that it is not a detriment to society as a whole.
If I own something I have more control over it, and thus (hopefully) less restrictions. If owning something actually increases my restrictions then I have less freedom. Certain types of ownership will grant freedom in some areas and remove it from others. As an example if I own a home I have ownership over the investment growth of the property, but I lose a lot of freedom with regards to flexibility. I rent, if I get a job somewhere else I don't need to worry about my house and have far more freedom to jump to a new opportunity than someone who owns a home.
I actually feel that sometimes granting ownership of certain things to a government entity in certain cases can give society more overall freedom. I am aware that I'm probably going to get railed for that.
This is why certain things, like say roads, or services like fire departments, police departments, military, etc. are government owned organizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy7fo
you can own property in china, zimbabwe, and russia as well...do they have liberty?
Property extends beyond land and the level of control over even that property is very different in China as compared to the US.
The OP should study William Blackstone's examination of the property rights of Englishmen (English Common Law) in understanding the foundation of property rights in the US per our founding fathers.
John Adams on property rights:
"The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If "[SIZE=-1]Thou shalt not covet[/SIZE]," and "[SIZE=-1]Thou shalt not steal[/SIZE]," were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free."
Thomas Jefferson on property rights:
"The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:36
"A right to property is founded in our natural wants, in the means with which we are endowed to satisfy these wants, and the right to what we acquire by those means without violating the similar rights of other sensible beings." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816. ME 14:490
James Madison on property rights:
"If there be a government then which prides itself in maintaining the inviolability of property; which provides that none shall be taken directly even for public use without indemnification to the owner, and yet directly violates the property which individuals have in their opinions, their religion, their persons, and their faculties; nay more, which indirectly violates their property, in their actual possessions, in the labor that acquires their daily subsistence, and in the hallowed remnant of time which ought to relieve their fatigues and soothe their cares, the influence [inference?] will have been anticipated, that such a government is not a pattern for the United States.
If the United States mean to obtain or deserve the full praise due to wise and just governments, they will equally respect the rights of property, and the property in rights: they will rival the government that most sacredly guards the former; and by repelling its example in violating the latter, will make themselves a pattern to that and all other governments."
Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 04-10-2010 at 04:29 PM..
Reason: typo
you can own property in china, zimbabwe, and russia as well...do they have liberty?
No you can't. You can own a house in China but you can never own the land its on. In Zimbabwe the government routinely takes proeprty from people, rendering them homeless and without a means of supporting themselves. Property rights are weak in Russia too.
Instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" it almost was "life, liberty and property". That is true.
"Life, liberty and property" came first in fact, the words of John Locke.
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