Why Middle Class Americans Can't Afford to Live in Liberal Cities (Portland: loft, mortgage)

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston

Wrong. Median household income in Portland is about $40K https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...me+in+portland

Portland Oregon Household Income | Department of Numbers
Are you sure?

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

If your commute involves a natural barrier, that is going to have an issue with commute times by car. This is common with most natural barriers. My guess is your commute in Houston doesn't involve any natural barriers.

And it leaves one with the same conclusion...PDX traffic is terrible for a city it's size.

PS - Neither commute has much of a natural barrier. The difference is a 6 lane super highway here and a 2 lane highway from the 70's there. There's other considerations to take in to consideration (problems with expanding freeways, investing in public transit, etc...) but the end result is the same...PDX traffic is bad.

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Portland Oregon Household Income | Department of Numbers
Are you sure?

Look at the link I provided...you're quoting a different stat that takes in to consideration other factors. Either way the argument that 40K or 60K is reasonable and responsible living for a $250K house is pretty absurd.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston

And it leaves one with the same conclusion...PDX traffic is terrible for a city it's size.

PS - Neither commute has much of a natural barrier. The difference is a 6 lane super highway here and a 2 lane highway from the 70's there. There's other considerations to take in to consideration (problems with expanding freeways, investing in public transit, etc...) but the end result is the same...PDX traffic is bad.

Meh, I am not a fan of 6 lane super highways cutting up my metro. I would rather see transit increase than expand the highway system. But that is besides the point, there really is no point in trying to debate your commute without specifics.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston

Look at the link I provided...you're quoting a different stat that takes in to consideration other factors. Either way the argument that 40K or 60K is reasonable and responsible living for a $250K house is pretty absurd.

Not everyone can buy a home or wants to buy a home, homeownership is about 53% in the city of Portland. And the median household income is $51K based on the the US Census.
Portland (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

[pdxMIKEpdx]

Just remember a normal, average, small, 200k house in a good but not great, so-so Portland neighborhood will cost you at least $1500.00 a month in mortgage, taxes, and insurance.

Add to that federal and state taxes, personal and medical insurance, utilities and food, the errant costs of raising a family, car payments/insurance, hundred dollar a month Trimet passes, etc, etc, and that "median" 60k a year salary starts to look pretty darned insufficient.

In fact, you'll have to live very, very frugally to stay out of debt...

I'm sure people do it, but most of the ones I know that are doing it successfully don't live in Portland and Multnomah county.
Or if they do, it's a small house way out on the east side, or in a lower income neighborhood in a small eighty year old house.

Just to give you an idea how much real estate prices have risen in Portland, in the early 80's I was able to buy three really nice houses in the Woodstock neighborhood (bordering on Eastmoreland) for less than 70k a piece.
These houses are all now worth close to or more than 350k a piece.
Property taxes back then? Around or less than one thousand bucks.
Property taxes today? The cheapest is about 4800 bucks.

[rzzzz]

Median rent is close to $1200 so it's not as if renters are faring that much better.

[bler144]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

Median rent is close to $1200 so it's not as if renters are faring that much better.

The trade-off with owning vs. renting is that you're protected from rent increases, but can still eat tax rate hikes (and insurance) and if the furnace goes out, you're taking a big hit to your savings - assuming you had any after sinking your assets into a downpayment.

Likewise, you stand to realize a gain if markets rise before you sell, but you're taking a risk that values won't drop and eat up any equity/downpayment you might have thought you had.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx

Just remember a normal, average, small, 200k house in a good but not great, so-so Portland neighborhood will cost you at least $1500.00 a month in mortgage, taxes, and insurance.

Add to that federal and state taxes, personal and medical insurance, utilities and food, the errant costs of raising a family, car payments/insurance, hundred dollar a month Trimet passes, etc, etc, and that "median" 60k a year salary starts to look pretty darned insufficient.

In fact, you'll have to live very, very frugally to stay out of debt...

I'm sure people do it, but most of the ones I know that are doing it successfully don't live in Portland and Multnomah county.
Or if they do, it's a small house way out on the east side, or in a lower income neighborhood in a small eighty year old house.

Just to give you an idea how much real estate prices have risen in Portland, in the early 80's I was able to buy three really nice houses in the Woodstock neighborhood (bordering on Eastmoreland) for less than 70k a piece.
These houses are all now worth close to or more than 350k a piece.
Property taxes back then? Around or less than one thousand bucks.
Property taxes today? The cheapest is about 4800 bucks.

That is why places like Milwaukie is attractive to people looking for living close in and are on a budget, housing costs are cheaper, the taxes are less, the options for schooling is still good, and access into Portland is very easy.

Portland has come a long way since the 80s. If prices were still the same as they were then, we would be living in a Spokane.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

Portland has come a long way since the 80s. If prices were still the same as they were then, we would be living in a Spokane.

Thank You, Captian Obvious.....


I was just trying to put a little perspective on the situation, and show why people who actually know Portland get a little upset with the rising prices here.
That's like a 400% increase in 40 years?
Do you think that's reasonable?

And don't tell me you are thinking of betraying your beloved Portland and are thinking about moving to Milwaukie?