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.................................And all a mote point because Idaho does not want to take on parts of Oregon and definitely does not want Eastern Washington. Figure out some other solution to your problem
Doubtful that Idaho would want eastern Washington. The population of eastern Washington is the same as Idaho, and eastern Washington has more natural resources and a better educated workforce than Idaho. Merging eastern Washington and Idaho, might mean that Idaho loses its identity and that would be a shame.
Eastern Oregon is NOT eastern Washington. They are very different.
I spent 20 years doing economic analysis for rural areas. The Forest Service research arm has doing research studies on rural areas for almost a hundred years now. It is interesting to read those papers over the years and see how the concept of "successful" rural areas has changed.
One thing that has not changed is that rural areas have been TOLD that providing goods and services for urban areas is their survival route. That is a mistake.
Rural areas are not all poor. Lots of rural areas "look" poorer than urban areas simply because they have more people self-employed and their "taxable" income is lower, but not their true income.
Most urban people look at "visible wealth", even though it might be more correct to characterize it as "visible debt".
Eastern Oregon looks to Idaho, not for financial reasons, but for cultural reasons. It is a better fit for their values and lifestyle than Portland and western Oregon.
For urban folks it is all about the money. It hard for them to understand that there is more to life than owning a Tesla.
Doubtful that Idaho would want eastern Washington. The population of eastern Washington is the same as Idaho, and eastern Washington has more natural resources and a better educated workforce than Idaho. Merging eastern Washington and Idaho, might mean that Idaho loses its identity and that would be a shame.
Eastern Oregon is NOT eastern Washington. They are very different.
I spent 20 years doing economic analysis for rural areas. The Forest Service research arm has doing research studies on rural areas for almost a hundred years now. It is interesting to read those papers over the years and see how the concept of "successful" rural areas has changed.
One thing that has not changed is that rural areas have been TOLD that providing goods and services for urban areas is their survival route. That is a mistake.
Rural areas are not all poor. Lots of rural areas "look" poorer than urban areas simply because they have more people self-employed and their "taxable" income is lower, but not their true income.
Most urban people look at "visible wealth", even though it might be more correct to characterize it as "visible debt".
Eastern Oregon looks to Idaho, not for financial reasons, but for cultural reasons. It is a better fit for their values and lifestyle than Portland and western Oregon.
For urban folks it is all about the money. It hard for them to understand that there is more to life than owning a Tesla.
Eastern WA has water and therefore cities like Spokane and the Tri-Cities and also major universities like WSU and CWU. It also has Indian Reservations which might also raise jurisdictional and sovereignty issues. They might not want to change states.
Eastern OR has no water to speak of so basically has no cities. The largest city in eastern OR is Hermiston at 19,000 and that is on the WA border and nearly a bedroom community of the Tri-Cities. After that Pendleton, The Dalles, and LaGrande are all in the mid-teens so barely a medium size suburb. And the only university out there is Eastern Oregon which has about 3500 students. And those cities are basically all along the Columbia River so have water, except for La Grande which is a bit further south. Once you venture south of I-84 into the heart of Eastern OR there is basically nothing but rangeland, forest land, and tiny towns.
I'm not sure it would be a huge No vote if put up for a referendum. Plenty of Western Oregonians would probably vote yes, just so they'd stop hearing about the complaints from Eastern Oregon. Still... it will be a hard sell at the state level and for the governors, even before it would go to the national level for debate, vote and unlikely approval. I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever.
Wrong. They didn't vote for a "Greater Idaho" They voted in favor of having their local county commissioners "study" the issue. And because it was a primary off-year election the vote totals were tiny. Only the most partisan voters tend to turn out for off-year primary elections.
If you added up all the pro votes in all those 11 counties you probably don't add up to more than about 10,000 total votes. I'm too lazy to look up all the results and add them up, but it isn't much.
Wrong. They didn't vote for a "Greater Idaho" They voted in favor of having their local county commissioners "study" the issue. And because it was a primary off-year election the vote totals were tiny. Only the most partisan voters tend to turn out for off-year primary elections.
If you added up all the pro votes in all those 11 counties you probably don't add up to more than about 10,000 total votes. I'm too lazy to look up all the results and add them up, but it isn't much.
I'm not saying that this has much, if any, chance of happening, but just parroting what the local media is reporting, or was easy to look up on a google search. Yeah, I didn't read deep into article about 11 counties voting to join Idaho, but when we're in Baker City, Sumpter or La Grande you hear people talking about joining Idaho and see a few signs around. Plus, the Facebook friends that I have in Eastern Oregon tend to make postings about wanting to join Idaho and are so very tired of Western Oregon telling them what they can/cannot do based on the needs/conditions of the Willamette Valley. Not sure what the total numbers would be by any means, but my observation is that some people at least are talking about it openly. Not just old grumpy people with a lot of time on their hands,
I'm not saying that this has much, if any, chance of happening, but just parroting what the local media is reporting, or was easy to look up on a google search. Yeah, I didn't read deep into article about 11 counties voting to join Idaho, but when we're in Baker City, Sumpter or La Grande you hear people talking about joining Idaho and see a few signs around. Plus, the Facebook friends that I have in Eastern Oregon tend to make postings about wanting to join Idaho and are so very tired of Western Oregon telling them what they can/cannot do based on the needs/conditions of the Willamette Valley. Not sure what the total numbers would be by any means, but my observation is that some people at least are talking about it openly. Not just old grumpy people with a lot of time on their hands,
I have family in Eastern Oregon who also keep talking about being tired of Portland telling them what do to.
When I ask how Portland actually AFFECTS their lives they can only come up with basically two complaints.
1. Land use laws that have been in place since the 1970s that prevent subdivision of rural lands. Basically they want to be able to cash in on THEIR land but prevent everyone else from doing the same so it still stays rural.
2. Gun laws, which are mostly imaginary given how many guns they have. It certainly hasn't seemed to slow them down. Even these latest gun laws would actually have zero effect on them. I guess it is just the principle of the thing that we don't dare touch the "precious"
Beyond those two areas they can't really articulate how Portland is controlling their lives in any way. The rest of the grumpiness is 30-year old grievances about the Spotted Owl which was an entirely Federal not state issue and didn't do what they thought anyway.
I have family in Eastern Oregon who also keep talking about being tired of Portland telling them what do to.
When I ask how Portland actually AFFECTS their lives they can only come up with basically two complaints.
1. Land use laws that have been in place since the 1970s that prevent subdivision of rural lands. Basically they want to be able to cash in on THEIR land but prevent everyone else from doing the same so it still stays rural.
2. Gun laws, which are mostly imaginary given how many guns they have. It certainly hasn't seemed to slow them down. Even these latest gun laws would actually have zero effect on them. I guess it is just the principle of the thing that we don't dare touch the "precious"
Beyond those two areas they can't really articulate how Portland is controlling their lives in any way. The rest of the grumpiness is 30-year old grievances about the Spotted Owl which was an entirely Federal not state issue and didn't do what they thought anyway.
Plastic bag ban. I know some who complain about that & say it was forced on them by Portland do-gooders. Also, they will blame Portland if so much as a 5-person homeless camp develops in their area.
Plastic bag ban. I know some who complain about that & say it was forced on them by Portland do-gooders.
There you go. Definitely a MONSTER threat to the Eastern Oregon way of life. I don't know how they manage to get by any more with the rural lifestyle under such threat.
I'm not saying that this has much, if any, chance of happening, but just parroting what the local media is reporting, or was easy to look up on a google search. Yeah, I didn't read deep into article about 11 counties voting to join Idaho, but when we're in Baker City, Sumpter or La Grande you hear people talking about joining Idaho and see a few signs around. Plus, the Facebook friends that I have in Eastern Oregon tend to make postings about wanting to join Idaho and are so very tired of Western Oregon telling them what they can/cannot do based on the needs/conditions of the Willamette Valley. Not sure what the total numbers would be by any means, but my observation is that some people at least are talking about it openly. Not just old grumpy people with a lot of time on their hands,
As an Idahoan, Wallowa, Union, and Baker counties are the only places in Eastern Oregon I *might* be interested in redrawing the boarders for. And that's still a big question for me. It makes sense for Idaho's legislators to entertain the proposal, but it's a different story when all costs and factors come to light. Will be interesting to see what happens with this.
The remainder of the so-called "Greater Idaho" map isn't worth the hassle. I don't for a minute buy the argument that these areas are somehow being held back by Portland. Instead, it's simply not productive land. Too little water and poor agricultural value, which translates to too few people and low economic opportunity.
The closest analog in Idaho is the Owyhee Desert in the SW corner of Idaho, which is similarly barren for the same reasons. The rest of Southern Idaho, especially the Snake River Plain is rich in water and has great agricultural potential. Lots of water via both the Snake River itself and associated water projects, but also the massive Snake River Plain Aquifer. And this is why Southern Idaho has a larger population with lots of relatively large cities as compared to Eastern Oregon.
Last edited by AnythingOutdoors; 02-10-2023 at 11:21 AM..
I have family in Eastern Oregon who also keep talking about being tired of Portland telling them what do to.
When I ask how Portland actually AFFECTS their lives they can only come up with basically two complaints.
.......
Perhaps they find you dismissive and disrespectful and don't want to have any discussions with you because you want to trot out your big city superiority as you pontificate on how you know better and they are just hicks who should shut up and stop complaining.
How about restrictive and inappropriate hunting bans and hunting regulations.
Expensive new laws about water use and sewage.
Removing the law requiring full service gas stations, which Eastern Oregon didn't want and Western Oregon didn't apply to themselves
Closing of rest areas and snow parks
Here's a big one: Portlanders don't need studded tires so they have the law written so they must come off of vehicles at least a full month before the need for them is over for the year and they keep trying to write laws to ban them.
Forcing miles and miles of windmills with synchronized blinking red lights onto the rural communities. If Portland thinks wind generated electricity is so great, why don't they put the windmills in their own neighborhoods?
The destruction of the timber industry.
The closing of small rural schools over the protest of the people whose kids attend those schools.
Is Portland going to dictate that everyone must use electric vehicles?
Making drug use virtually legal.
Forcing rural towns to allow the homeless to sleep and poop on the sidewalks in front of the stores.
Outlawing centuries old farming practices without understand the purpose of the practice.
Passing laws which make it much more expensive to raise and water cattle, and for no purpose.
They tried to make it illegal to trap and kill gophers, but fortunately, that one didn't pass, I am assuming because it also affected gardeners who live in the cities.
Increasing fuel taxes on people who must use more fuel than the city folks.
Aggressively trying to get dams removed.
And this business of making sure the folks in the rural communities qualify for less social security than the city folks who have done the same job is particularly offensive.
Imposing unworkable landlord tenant laws on the rural areas.
Perhaps they find you dismissive and disrespectful and don't want to have any discussions with you because you want to trot out your big city superiority as you pontificate on how you know better and they are just hicks who should shut up and stop complaining.
How about restrictive and inappropriate hunting bans and hunting regulations.
Expensive new laws about water use and sewage.
Removing the law requiring full service gas stations, which Eastern Oregon didn't want and Western Oregon didn't apply to themselves
Closing of rest areas and snow parks
Here's a big one: Portlanders don't need studded tires so they have the law written so they must come off of vehicles at least a full month before the need for them is over for the year and they keep trying to write laws to ban them.
Forcing miles and miles of windmills with synchronized blinking red lights onto the rural communities. If Portland thinks wind generated electricity is so great, why don't they put the windmills in their own neighborhoods?
The destruction of the timber industry.
The closing of small rural schools over the protest of the people whose kids attend those schools.
Is Portland going to dictate that everyone must use electric vehicles?
Making drug use virtually legal.
Forcing rural towns to allow the homeless to sleep and poop on the sidewalks in front of the stores.
Outlawing centuries old farming practices without understand the purpose of the practice.
Passing laws which make it much more expensive to raise and water cattle, and for no purpose.
They tried to make it illegal to trap and kill gophers, but fortunately, that one didn't pass, I am assuming because it also affected gardeners who live in the cities.
Increasing fuel taxes on people who must use more fuel than the city folks.
Aggressively trying to get dams removed.
And this business of making sure the folks in the rural communities qualify for less social security than the city folks who have done the same job is particularly offensive.
Imposing unworkable landlord tenant laws on the rural areas.
How many more would you like to hear?
Exactly, thank you!
Washington is doing the same crap on so many levels. They have even closed the rest stops, but leave the RV waste dumps open and the homeless park there and vandalize/steal everything.
The above bolded items are going to play out well together, won't they?
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