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I never see Eli's name mentioned with the top 4 (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).. he typically falls in the second tier of QBs which certainly would NOT land him on an overrated list.. IMO.
The bottom line is, Eli won 2 Super Bowls.. that's 2 more than 99% of the QBs playing today.. so I am not sure how you could ever consider him overrated. He may not put up flashy numbers during the regular season but during 2 post season runs, he was the best QB on the field.. you might can get away with that once but not twice. Twice is no fluke.. Eli is good, in fact he is great at the most important times.. overrated? Unless someone is comparing him to Joe Montana then NO, he is not overrated.
Eli may not be the best quarterback in the league but he is the best in the clutch...when it counts!! There are countless stories to back that up. I know he looks bad in a lot of moments, while others look really good on a weekly basis. I would take clutch player versus a great regular season quarterback. Matter of fact, call me crazy, but at this moment, I fear the Giants. Yes, the 2-6 Giants, they are not dead yet.
Culpepper and Pennington were both very good quarterbacks in their day. Before their respective careers were derailed by injuries, I would have taken both of them over Eli Manning. Garrard was also pretty good despite playing on relatively weak Jaguars teams, and as a player is pretty comparable to Eli.
You pretty much lost credibility when you claimed Eli put those teams on his back. Sorry, it wasn't Eli that held the greatest offense in league history to 14 points, more than three touchdowns below their season average.
I honestly think you're missing the point here. I'll admit that Eli is good, but he is not elite, and he is overrated. I think you're misinterpreting my post to say he's not good.
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Anyone who would take Culpepper or Pennington over Eli, clearly, has never played the game or has an understanding of the game.
Stick to cheering on your own team and favorite players. You will have more fun and not appear so naive.
I never see Eli's name mentioned with the top 4 (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).. he typically falls in the second tier of QBs which certainly would NOT land him on an overrated list.. IMO.
The bottom line is, Eli won 2 Super Bowls.. that's 2 more than 99% of the QBs playing today.. so I am not sure how you could ever consider him overrated. He may not put up flashy numbers during the regular season but during 2 post season runs, he was the best QB on the field.. you might can get away with that once but not twice. Twice is no fluke.. Eli is good, in fact he is great at the most important times.. overrated? Unless someone is comparing him to Joe Montana then NO, he is not overrated.
There is no denying that the four QB's mentioned are all very good. A couple can even be mentioned in the best of all time. But, the fact is that put in a situation where they are operating with limited time, they all appear human.
Now, some are in schemes designed to get the ball out very quickly, so this helps when the protection is not there. But,
Eli is not in an offense that relies on tempo and getting the ball out quickly. The offense relies on good protection for the QB and taking shots down field.
There is a stat that shows interceptions being caused by lack of accuracy. Eli is not anywhere near the top of that list. He does make bad decisions on occasion, usually trying to do too much. But, the majority of his interceptions are balls tipping off of his receivers hands, routes being cut off for no apparent reason and lack of protection.
I honestly don't understand the hate for Eli. The guy doesn't talk smack. He supports his receivers, even when they make boneheaded plays and he delivers in the clutch.
Maybe its the ESPN culture where all we see are snippets and highlights of whomever it is they deem "the greatest".
Eli may not be the best quarterback in the league but he is the best in the clutch...when it counts!! There are countless stories to back that up. I know he looks bad in a lot of moments, while others look really good on a weekly basis. I would take clutch player versus a great regular season quarterback. Matter of fact, call me crazy, but at this moment, I fear the Giants. Yes, the 2-6 Giants, they are not dead yet.
Agree 100%.
Another poster started a thread regarding who is still in the NFC playoff hunt and I have always put the Giants ahead of the Redskins (mainly because of Eli)....
Anyone who would take Culpepper or Pennington over Eli, clearly, has never played the game or has an understanding of the game.
Stick to cheering on your own team and favorite players. You will have more fun and not appear so naive.
Oh yeah?
Pennington has the highest career completion percentage of any quarterback with more than 1500 attempts, and he's got Eli topped by nearly 8 percentage points in that category. He also finished second to Peyton Manning in the 2008 MVP race, an award that Eli has never really been in contention for. Culpepper held the record for combined passing and rushing yards. Both players were much more integral parts of their respective teams than Eli has ever been, and both were considered rising stars until injuries took their toll early on.
Both of their career quarterback rankings (90.1 and 87.8) are significantly higher than Eli's very pedestrian 81.8.
All things being equal, a healthy Pennington or Culpepper would have proved superior options to Eli Manning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5
There is no denying that the four QB's mentioned are all very good. A couple can even be mentioned in the best of all time. But, the fact is that put in a situation where they are operating with limited time, they all appear human.
Now, some are in schemes designed to get the ball out very quickly, so this helps when the protection is not there. But,
Eli is not in an offense that relies on tempo and getting the ball out quickly. The offense relies on good protection for the QB and taking shots down field.
There is a stat that shows interceptions being caused by lack of accuracy. Eli is not anywhere near the top of that list. He does make bad decisions on occasion, usually trying to do too much. But, the majority of his interceptions are balls tipping off of his receivers hands, routes being cut off for no apparent reason and lack of protection.
I honestly don't understand the hate for Eli. The guy doesn't talk smack. He supports his receivers, even when they make boneheaded plays and he delivers in the clutch.
Maybe its the ESPN culture where all we see are snippets and highlights of whomever it is they deem "the greatest".
You don't know what you're talking about. The Giants use the Erhardt-Perkins offense, which Kevin Gilbride (Giants OC) has adapted with traits from his days with the Oilers in the Run n' Shoot era. That is, most certainly, an offense that relies on quick passing and timing. The Giants current version of this offense is very schematically similar to the one used by the Patriots under Charlie Weis, with the only real deviation being that Gilbride prefers to use 21 personnel as opposed to Weis, who used primarily 12 personnel during his time in New England.
(On a side note, your whole comment was really off base as ALL offenses down to the high school level rely on tempo and timing in the passing game. Some (West Coast) are more reliant than others, but the Erhardt-Perkins offense skews toward the "more reliant" side of that equilibrium.)
Lastly, I don't see any "hate" towards Eli here, so I'm not sure where you pulled that from.
Pennington has the highest career completion percentage of any quarterback with more than 1500 attempts, and he's got Eli topped by nearly 8 percentage points in that category. He also finished second to Peyton Manning in the 2008 MVP race, an award that Eli has never really been in contention for. Culpepper held the record for combined passing and rushing yards. Both players were much more integral parts of their respective teams than Eli has ever been, and both were considered rising stars until injuries took their toll early on.
Both of their career quarterback rankings (90.1 and 87.8) are significantly higher than Eli's very pedestrian 81.8.
All things being equal, a healthy Pennington or Culpepper would have proved superior options to Eli Manning.
Yep, too much ESPN and Fantasy for you.
You don't know what you're talking about. The Giants use the Erhardt-Perkins offense, which Kevin Gilbride (Giants OC) has adapted with traits from his days with the Oilers in the Run n' Shoot era. That is, most certainly, an offense that relies on quick passing and timing. The Giants current version of this offense is very schematically similar to the one used by the Patriots under Charlie Weis, with the only real deviation being that Gilbride prefers to use 21 personnel as opposed to Weis, who used primarily 12 personnel during his time in New England.
(On a side note, your whole comment was really off base as ALL offenses down to the high school level rely on tempo and timing in the passing game. Some (West Coast) are more reliant than others, but the Erhardt-Perkins offense skews toward the "more reliant" side of that equilibrium.)
Lastly, I don't see any "hate" towards Eli here, so I'm not sure where you pulled that from.
Do you actually watch Giants games?
The Giants offense is the farthest from relying on tempo and timing. Have you ever seen the Giants run a screen?
Over the last couple of games, Gilbride has modified the offense as a result of subpar offensive line play. Eli's first and second options are not always down field, where they have been for most of his career.
IMHO, Eli's would have much better stats under a better offensive coordinator.
Why He's Overrated: One of the league' most visible, boastful and brash players. Listening to him and his fans, one might think they had found Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders and Revis in their primes all rolled into one. Truth be told, Sherman is a good player, but only about half as good as he thinks he is, and a lot of fans mistake swagger for talent. In terms of talent and production, Sherman is more like Asante Samuel and Dre Bly.
Potential for Redemption: Unlikely. Too amused by his own schtick.
Joke.
Sherman was all-pro last year.
Is a defensive POY candidate this year.
Since he gained a starting spot as a 5th round rookie in 2011 no other player in the league has more Ints.
If you look at sources like Pro Football Focus that does some advanced statistic type rating they rated Sherman +25.1 overall and +26.4 in coverage. These #s are very comparable to someone like Revis.
Last year Sherman was targeted 87 times (for reference Revis was targeted 93 times on average over a 3 year stretch). He allowed only 41 receptions (47.1%) and only allowed 135 yards after the catch which shows typically tight coverage and good tackling. The average QB rating when a QB challenged Sherman last year? 41.1% ........ that's a silly good number in a league that favors passing - for reference last year the top 4 QBs in rating had ratings over 100, all of the top 10 were over 90 and even 21st ranked Christian Ponder was above 80 in passer rating
Flat out ball player. Has huge impacts during the game, can tackle and fight through blocks on running plays and cover any depth on the field.
He's also insanely prepared each week, a great teamate and a really good dude
I can definitely understand people not liking the way he carries himself on the field ..... but to argue that he isn't one of the best CBs in the game today is nuts and that's exactly where he's rated as a 3rd year pro
The Giants offense is the farthest from relying on tempo and timing. Have you ever seen the Giants run a screen?
Over the last couple of games, Gilbride has modified the offense as a result of subpar offensive line play. Eli's first and second options are not always down field, where they have been for most of his career.
IMHO, Eli's would have much better stats under a better offensive coordinator.
Shows what you know. I watch virtually zero ESPN save for the actual games and despise fantasy football. I also have a substantial background in both playing and coaching football and...if you look through my previous posts here...happen to be a huge proponent of the Erhardt-Perkins offense. I have no less than 10 actual playbooks of that scheme on my computer, including several from the Charlie Weis era in New England. I'm pretty well versed in that offense and can easily debate the finer points of such if you really want go down that road.
Your attempt to use the lack of screens to support your point is silly. That alone does not a timing offense make, and ironically enough the ultimate timing offense (Walsh's WCO) was surprisingly lacking in screens. The Patriots rely heavily on screens, especially in the McDaniels/O'Brien era as they opened up the offense significantly...though they tend to throw their screens outside to the flankers and split ends rather than running backs.
Kevin Gilbride is a pretty good coordinator. He's pretty far down the list of problems.
Since he gained a starting spot as a 5th round rookie in 2011 no other player in the league has more Ints.
If you look at sources like Pro Football Focus that does some advanced statistic type rating they rated Sherman +25.1 overall and +26.4 in coverage. These #s are very comparable to someone like Revis.
Last year Sherman was targeted 87 times (for reference Revis was targeted 93 times on average over a 3 year stretch). He allowed only 41 receptions (47.1%) and only allowed 135 yards after the catch which shows typically tight coverage and good tackling. The average QB rating when a QB challenged Sherman last year? 41.1% ........ that's a silly good number in a league that favors passing - for reference last year the top 4 QBs in rating had ratings over 100, all of the top 10 were over 90 and even 21st ranked Christian Ponder was above 80 in passer rating
Flat out ball player. Has huge impacts during the game, can tackle and fight through blocks on running plays and cover any depth on the field.
He's also insanely prepared each week, a great teamate and a really good dude
I can definitely understand people not liking the way he carries himself on the field ..... but to argue that he isn't one of the best CBs in the game today is nuts and that's exactly where he's rated as a 3rd year pro
The problem with quoting Pro Football Focus is that they use ridiculously arbitrary rating systems thought up and written by people with no real coaching or playing experience. In fact, last I checked, just about anyone could apply to write there. They're simply terrible and shouldn't even be in the discussion. Football Outsiders is a lot better, but still flawed, and they don't paint as pretty of a picture for Sherman. Also, if Sherman was as great as he thinks he is, the Seahawks coaching staff would have him lined up on the opponents #1 receiver on a consistent basis. As it is now, he had a great year in 2012, but he also gets to beat up on #2s a lot, with a TON of mixed man-zone coverages. Stevie Johnson whipped him repeatedly in one of the rare times Sherman played the opposing #1 straight up.
Personally, I think Browner is the better of their two corners.
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