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Big Ben
Wilson (if he wins SB this year)
E Manning
Moon
K Anderson
Cunningham
Simms
I just did this off the top of my head. Im pretty sure i've forgotten someone or put someone too high or too low on the lists.
Any thoughts on who i've forgotten and if you think i have anyone in the wrong group?
Kid....just my opinion (not looking to fight you, everyone entitled to their list)....very good list off top of your head, if i had to critique, Young is not top 10....i dont think Rodgers is in that second tier yet....One big ommission i think is Jim Kelly, he was a great QB
Kid....just my opinion (not looking to fight you, everyone entitled to their list)....very good list off top of your head, if i had to critique, Young is not top 10....i dont think Rodgers is in that second tier yet....One big ommission i think is Jim Kelly, he was a great QB
Starr and Jurgensen before some of those guys. I wouldn't have Cunningham on the list. Bradshaw won because of the team. Lots of guys could have quarterbacked those teams.
Kid....just my opinion (not looking to fight you, everyone entitled to their list)....very good list off top of your head, if i had to critique, Young is not top 10....i dont think Rodgers is in that second tier yet....One big ommission i think is Jim Kelly, he was a great QB
No worried, i appreciate the constructive points. You're right Kelly belongs somewhere, he slipped my mind.
Its tough for me to take Young out of that top group. If you can convince me, i'm all ears, i have an open mind for sure.
A little something I copied from the Seahawk forum, my thanks and apologies to the author...
Was on Football Outsiders and they were arguing that there wasn't statistical evidence to support that Peyton Manning wasn't as good in the playoffs. I thought bull. We define a QB's greatness by their playoff success. In the playoffs they're playing the best the NFL has to offer, not the cream puffs they get on their regular schedule. On average, a QB's key ratings should decrease in the playoffs. The great ones, like Joe Montana, should see their playoff ratings stay the same or even increase.
So I did a blind test. Blind in that I had no idea whether or not the players I checked on would actually have better or worse stats. I named three QB's I though were actually average or worse in the playoffs. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Andrew Luck. Brady may surprise people but he plays a cream puff schedule every year that pads his stats. Then I named two QB's that have a reputation of being the greatest in the game come playoff time. Joe Montana and Brett Favre. Then I added in Russell Wilson.
These are the stats I used to determine a QB's greatness:
Completion %. This should dip slightly in the playoffs.
TD%. Do they rise to the occasion?
INT%. Or do they choke?
AYA (Adjusted Yards per pass Attempt). Considered a good metric of how well a QB is passing the ball.
ANYA (Adjusted Net Yards per pass Attempt). Takes into consideration the effect of sacks.
The results (regular season/playoffs):
The Not So Great After All QB's
Tom Brady:
C% (63.5/62.3)
TD% (5.5/4.6)
INT% (2.0*/2.3)
AYA (7.6/6.7)
ANYA 6.95/6.45
As you might expect, Brady's stats get worse in the playoffs vs quality opponents. They don't dip much however, except TD% takes a bit of a dip.
Peyton leads all these guys in completion % so he's still great in the playoffs, but he does get slightly worse. In all other categories excetp INT% he gets worse in the playoffs.
Andrew Luck:
C% (58.6/59.5)
TD% (4.7/4.0)
INT% (2.4/4.4)
AYA (7.0/6.3)
ANYA (6.33/5.89)
Not only does Luck get worse in the playoffs in every category except completion %, but he's pretty much got the worst stats of this entire group.
The GREAT ONES
Joe Montana:
C% (63.2/62.7)
TD% (5.1/6.1* )
INT% (2.6/2.9)
AYA (7.4/7.8 )
ANYA (6.6/7.8 )
His completion % slightly dips and he gives up slightly more INTs, but he is the TD God of this group. And his ANYA significantly improves as well. Overall increase in 3 of the 5 categories.
Again, we see increase in 3 of 5 categories. It's Favre's INT's that go up and that's what the gunslinger was known for, blowing playoff games with untimely INTs. His completion % dipped vs superior opponents as well.
Russell Wilson:
C% (63.4/63.8 )
TD% (5.8*/5.9)
INT% (2.1/0.7* )
AYA (8.2*/9.9* )
ANYA (6.93/8.39* )
Russell Wilson gets better in every single category. His INT% is absurdly low. His AYA and ANYA in the playoffs blow away all the other "elite" QB's come playoff time. In fact, Wilson leads this group in 5 of the 10 possible stats regular and post season. 3 of 5 playoff stats belong to Wilson.
Nay, i'm going to add a point about "lack of playoff success" on some of these Qbs like Manning, Marino, Brady (recently anyway), etc
You can make the case if you want to (i'm going to make it) that amazingly great QBs can mask the weaknesses of teams thru the reg seasons, but when the games get tougher and the playoffs go longer, the weaker teams get exposed in the biggest games. So, these QBS Like Manning are SO good, that if they were a little "less good" their GM would surround them with better players....but when you have Manning rolling along winning reg season game after reg season game, its APPEARS like the team is all set, it appears that the team doesn't need any tweaking....but in reality, the greatness of Manning is covering up for the deficiencies....and in the biggest games, those deficiencies get exposed and the QB gets blamed.
It all has to be taken into context and that's why i would never try and separate playoff success with the overall greatness of the QB, its too hard to blame the QB for playoff losses when he might have just gotten an incredibly overachieving team there in the first place.
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