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Bully for you. Oh snap. Men and women are different. Captain Obvious. Do you have a wife? Ask HER. She'd probably tell you the same thing. Butt OUT. The ladies clearly discussed SEVEN FREAKING YEARS of challenges, fears, successes, experiences etc. If you didn't get it from reading 155 pages of posts you'll NEVER get it.
Why can't you just leave it alone?
The WOMEN had that thread for 7 years.
Then a moderator, apparently a MALE renamed it "MEN and women blah blah blah".
Bad enough he hijacked the topic from WOMEN retiring but he put "MEN" FIRST.
As a poster stated:
Moderator, could you please step in and explain what is happening? We are just a bunch of old women who are alone and retiring or retired -- all we want to do is discuss it. It would really help if you gave your side of the opinion because all I'm trying to do is answer some of the posts. Thanks.
Don't you have some automotive oil to change or something?
You won't be moving into any Golden Girl housing arrangements any time soon so why not let them have their spot? Don't they have ENOUGH STRESS as it is?
The thread was NOT invisible to male eyes. If you were so interested in "learning".
You want it explained? OK - We really couldn't care less what you, [men] think about US RETIRING ALONE.
We had our time with men. Widows, divorcees, never married, women with NO kids or families etc etc. In case you didn't know, MOST women can't be bothered after a certain age. We have children and parents we're still sandwiched in between. Lunatic parents running around naked and setting houses on fire. Fathers sharing all the lewd things they would do to teenage girls they see on the street in a demented madness. Alzheimer's running in our families and wondering are we next. You name it, we have the party going on in OUR lives. Women live longer than men and outnumber men. Women are more likely to get Alzheimers than men. Women are also more likely to be CAREGIVERS than men.
Fragile? Not on your life. How condescending. Yes. That's why we want to just speak with each OTHER on the topic. They were just being POLITE, not fragile. They really wanted to say GTFO - but of course, being "nice"...they wouldn't.
Just wanted to make sure your post was preserved in its entirety as you posted it.
I will tell you how I feel even if it sounds irrational. I do feel more comfortable around women. Many men have the tendency of boxing women just because they belong to a certain gender. Others have the tendency to flirt just because you are a woman. Many think our only purpose is to "get a man" "be pretty" and sometimes discussion just get off topic with silly gender generalizations. I think women are less judgmental especially older women who no longer have that social pressure of having a perfect body, a perfect marriage and beautiful children. Maybe you are not like that, but unfortunately many men box women.
I can tell you in real life I was always very disappointed when I had conversations with men and they made comments such as "why do women" "do you as a woman" It just made me feel different, not flattered. Those comments brought me back to reality, this person sees gender above all.
Your statements are also generalizations that may make men feel boxed in. Your generalizations are OK, but when men do it, it is wrong. You may want to re-read your post as it is actually judgemental of men in general. I have women friends and we have been very comfortable in our conversations. "Men box women" is very judgemental and you make no mention of exceptions, which must exist if you are making an effort. "Men believe a woman's only purpose is to get a man"..also a sweeping judgement of men in general.
It is not good to make sweeping generalizations based on interactions with a small number of men, just like it would be unfair for me to do that based on a small number of women.
Bully for you. Oh snap. Men and women are different. Captain Obvious. Do you have a wife? Ask HER. She'd probably tell you the same thing. Butt OUT. The ladies clearly discussed SEVEN FREAKING YEARS of challenges, fears, successes, experiences etc. If you didn't get it from reading 155 pages of posts you'll NEVER get it.
Why can't you just leave it alone?
The WOMEN had that thread for 7 years.
Then a moderator, apparently a MALE renamed it "MEN and women blah blah blah".
Bad enough he hijacked the topic from WOMEN retiring but he put "MEN" FIRST.
As a poster stated:
Moderator, could you please step in and explain what is happening? We are just a bunch of old women who are alone and retiring or retired -- all we want to do is discuss it. It would really help if you gave your side of the opinion because all I'm trying to do is answer some of the posts. Thanks.
Don't you have some automotive oil to change or something?
You won't be moving into any Golden Girl housing arrangements any time soon so why not let them have their spot? Don't they have ENOUGH STRESS as it is?
The thread was NOT invisible to male eyes. If you were so interested in "learning".
You want it explained? OK - We really couldn't care less what you, [men] think about US RETIRING ALONE.
We had our time with men. Widows, divorcees, never married, women with NO kids or families etc etc. In case you didn't know, MOST women can't be bothered after a certain age. We have children and parents we're still sandwiched in between. Lunatic parents running around naked and setting houses on fire. Fathers sharing all the lewd things they would do to teenage girls they see on the street in a demented madness. Alzheimer's running in our families and wondering are we next. You name it, we have the party going on in OUR lives. Women live longer than men and outnumber men. Women are more likely to get Alzheimers than men. Women are also more likely to be CAREGIVERS than men.
Fragile? Not on your life. How condescending. Yes. That's why we want to just speak with each OTHER on the topic. They were just being POLITE, not fragile. They really wanted to say GTFO - but of course, being "nice"...they wouldn't.
You are right that those women were too polite to say what was really on their mind...you, on the other hand are a different story. Your anger is obvious. The fact that you are angry won't likely change the OP's mind. Remember, he predicted he might be attacked rather than having his concerns rationally discussed.
Ah, now we are getting the flavor of the original! Mean-spirited, raging anger (that is, in the post as a whole, not so much in the small part of it I quoted above). Glad you posted, because now the other responders in this thread can see what I was talking about.
And the reason I chose that small portion to quote was to zero in on the deliberate misunderstanding that I don't want to "let them have their spot". So once again (although I hold no great hope that you will be able to hear anything I say), I will repeat that I had, and have, no objection to the thread as is was. I was, however, interested in the reasons behind the need for a women's only thread, and indeed I have received a good deal of insight from various posts in this present thread.
It is certainly instructive that you feel attacked and threatened by an inquiry into your own views and feelings. And it is instructive that you chose to respond in the attack mode - snide, snarky, hostile, resentful, beside yourself. To answer one of your questions, no, I don't have any automotive oil to change this week or next; I would rather explore the understanding of a part of the human race.
You were very rational and polite, but some people already made up their mind to angrily respond for no good reason even if you showed respect in your post. If several retired men had a seven year thread that excluded women, many women (certainly not all) would accuse men of sexism.
Escort: I've tried to understand women for years and finally gave up. 10 years ago I had a job in a company where most of the employees were women and I worked for them. I gave up and quit, vowing to never put myself in that situation again. Personally, after being married almost 40 years to the same woman, I still don't understand. I just accept that they think in certain ways that I never will understand.
Here's an example that is sometimes discussed. A wife comes home from work and goes on a rant about a problem at work. The husband goes into problem solving mode, and comes up with one or more potential solutions. The wife is angry at his response. She wants her husband to just listen and sympathize, not solve the problem???? I don't try to figure it out anymore. They just are the way they are. Accept it.
For an entire lifetime I have been interested in other points of view, for example learning about other cultures. What is easy for me is understanding people like me and people who agree with me. I am seeking here to understand a point of view I find puzzling. You have chosen to label that a "problem", but I see it more as simple curiosity.
Would you care to flesh out your ideas further? For example some of the ways the male and female perspectives differ (yes, that's a pretty broad area!), and then why having a male perspective on a public discussion board is "not always desirable".
I'll try to convey my perspective. I think there are circumstances where women prefer to only talk and relate to only women, and a male perspective is not wanted or needed. This can apply even on a public discussion board. I know a group of women who meet every Saturday morning. They all have been in abusive marriages and are trying to recover. They find solace in the company of other women, as their shared feminine experience facilitates healing. Of course this scenario is not limited to the desire to heal from negative shared experiences. Consider the scenario where a group of professional women meet once a month. As a group, they were close friends in college, and remained close as they assumed their various careers. Some are married, some aren't, but they enjoyed meeting to relate to one another as they always have. A shared feminine perspective is the important point here.
Consider the forum that you are referring to. Older women are retiring and moving to a different state. There raises are a host of scenarios where only the shared feminine perspective is desired. Maybe these women are alone and experiencing difficulties with men, and prefer to hear only how other women in similar circumstances handle themselves. Doesn't mean they hate men. Maybe they have been mistreated in their marriages, or cheated on, or abused, and prefer to hear how other women in similar circumstances cope and heal themselves. Doesn't mean they hate men, but it is certainly understandable if they prefer to hear how other women in similar circumstances recover from such an ordeal. Maybe they gave up promising careers to care for men who ultimately deceived, mistreated, then left them, and as they move on to a different phase of their lives, the perspective of women in similar circumstances is what they relate to best, and what they need most at the time. Maybe they have been in great marriages, and their loving husbands died unexpectantly, and the feminine perspective is desired of other women for the same reasons. Maybe the problems they face as older women, facing the uncertainty of having to move to a different location is the bond. Maybe the combination of some of the above, along with health concerns experienced only by women, is the bond. Again, it's the shared feminine perspective that is desired. This is important and it should be respected IMO.
My apologies for calling your perspective a "problem". I just see nothing wrong with a forum for women containing posters who prefer only the perspective of other women.
Escort: I went over to that thread to see what their discussion was about, and I can see what they are talking about. It was typical things that women talk about that would bore most men to death. Its the same reason why at a family gathering, the men are in one group and the women in another. Interests are just different.
Your statements are also generalizations that may make men feel boxed in. Your generalizations are OK, but when men do it, it is wrong. You may want to re-read your post as it is actually judgemental of men in general. I have women friends and we have been very comfortable in our conversations. "Men box women" is very judgemental and you make no mention of exceptions, which must exist if you are making an effort. "Men believe a woman's only purpose is to get a man"..also a sweeping judgement of men in general.
It is not good to make sweeping generalizations based on interactions with a small number of men, just like it would be unfair for me to do that based on a small number of women.
Yes they are generalizations, I said at the beginning my feelings may be irrational. I was just speaking about my experiences. I am not in denial and that includes being sincere with how I feel.
By the way I actually said "many men" not "Men" (as if I was speaking of all men) so you are wrong when you say I made no exceptions. Reread my post. You probably should have tried direct quotes instead of paraphrasing my words and excluding the word "many" on both occassions.
Your statements are also generalizations that may make men feel boxed in. Your generalizations are OK, but when men do it, it is wrong. You may want to re-read your post as it is actually judgemental of men in general. I have women friends and we have been very comfortable in our conversations. "Men box women" is very judgemental and you make no mention of exceptions, which must exist if you are making an effort. "Men believe a woman's only purpose is to get a man"..also a sweeping judgement of men in general.
It is not good to make sweeping generalizations based on interactions with a small number of men, just like it would be unfair for me to do that based on a small number of women.
Your response is very interesting to me. The words originally used, and the words you chose to quote are different enough to change the meaning. What was said was MANY men have a TENDENCY to box women in. In my mind, that phrasing implies there are, of course, exceptions. The other statement was MANY believe a woman's only purpose is to get a man. For the generation we're talking about, that was very real belief of many men AND women.
I don't intend to come across as nit-picky, or angry or hostile - and I don't think your post was, either. I just find this an interesting example of how things get misread and misunderstood on these forums. Escort's original post was also misunderstood by some. Imagine how much better everyone could get along if we all sought to understand instead of argue. (And I mean that for all of "we", not singling out chessgeek by any means)
Just wanted to make sure your post was preserved in its entirety as you posted it.
Escort, may I ask: Do you want my opinion even if it means I don't agree with you? If you don't then please skip the next paragraphs because you are not gonna like them. Seriously, skip them if you don't want any criticism.
Ok here I go:
I get the feeling you think most of us think Runningwithscissors' post was angry and your post is rational and emotion free. That is not the reality, not everybody feels the same way you do. I know I don't. I think you are being just as emotional as she was, you are just using passive agressiveness.
I think you are letting your need to prove the world that you are "right" and defensiveness block your empathy. Did you feel any empathy when she described her parents? The experiences she described are very traumatic and she wants her space and want feedback from people who she thinks empathize with her experiences. Why not leave it alone? She is the one in pain, not you, you are not in her shoes. When I say "she" I am also referring to the women in the retirement forum. People want to be around those who they feel empathize with their pain.
I know you probably don't like my answer but that is how I perceive that interaction.
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