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I'm not sure---maybe because he's not taught very extensively in most clinical psychology or psychiatry training, or because his theories don't form a practical basis for the kind of psychotherapy practiced nowadays.
Actually, Jung's work forms the foundation for a very-widely-used assessment instrument -- the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). It also served as a springboard or starting point for the work of others.
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I think its important to remind ourselves, from time to time, that the "human mind" is a construct. It has no physical existence -- no one can point to it and say, "There, THAT is the mind." Unlike our mechanical or electrical machines, the human mind has no physical parts, and no two are put together in exactly the same way. Even more interesting, the human mind is constantly re-structuring, re-coding and "re-wiring" itself. It even tries to repair itself. If only our mechanical and electrical machines could learn to do that...!
Therefore, the study of the human mind and the related professions, including psychiatry and psychology, are in a constant state of evolution and change. The same is true, by the way, of all the sciences. Just ask any astronomer, physicist, chemist, physiologist, etc.
Now let's add another dimension. Tools like the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual (DSM), versions I through V, also incorporate social/cultural factors into its definitions and standards. When I first entered the mental health field in early 1969, we were using the DSM-II. Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder. Then, in the 6th printing of the DSM-II in 1973, it was removed as a mental disorder.
What changed? The active, ongoing research determined three things: [1] while it was (and still is) statistically abnormal, homosexuality was not/is not clinically abnormal, [2] the things that define "homosexuality" vary widely between cultures, and [3] the level of acceptance of homosexuality also varies widely between cultures. Just for clarity, being left-handed is also statistically, but not clinically, abnormal, and cultural/societal views & acceptance of it also vary considerably.
Now, our culture's increasing intolerance of intolerance (pardon the term) is starting to change formerly "normal" things into abnormalities, aberrations and criminal acts. The popular notion of "hate crime" also began in the 1970s, although the legal concept significantly predates this.
Long story short, people whose behavior used to be considered "normal" are finding themselves on the wrong side of the law and/or cultural norms. Some of them might, one day, be diagnosed as having a mental disorder. That has got to be a shock...
-- Nighteyes
Last edited by Nighteyes; 06-02-2014 at 10:34 AM..
Everything we experience is chemical in origin. We are physiological creatures who function chemically. I don't see how it can not come down to "brain chemicals" or vis a vis neurophysiology.
Your chemicals do not MAKE you act the way you do. They are chemical in effect, not in origin. You ARE your chemicals and you control them, however unwittingly, with your thoughts and actions. Say you and I are looking at exactly the same event at the same moment. If you think, "Well, it's about time that happened," you'll experience relief or pleasure, at least satisfaction. If I look at it and think "Holy crap, this could turn out to be terrible," I am saying something to make myself anxious, even hopeless. Thoughts control emotions, and you control your thoughts.
Think in terms of optimism and concrete solutions to spelled-out problems, and your anxiety chemical gets shut off. Staying connected to others and checking your beliefs against reality keeps your dopamine levels up, while isolating yourself and thinking bleak thoughts drop it through the floor. Even physically smiling without any emotion behind it has been shown to raise your serotonin level.
That is why counseling is required with psych meds -- so you build skills and get to the point of no longer needing them.
Your chemicals do not MAKE you act the way you do. They are chemical in effect, not in origin. You ARE your chemicals and you control them, however unwittingly, with your thoughts and actions. Say you and I are looking at exactly the same event at the same moment. If you think, "Well, it's about time that happened," you'll experience relief or pleasure, at least satisfaction. If I look at it and think "Holy crap, this could turn out to be terrible," I am saying something to make myself anxious, even hopeless. Thoughts control emotions, and you control your thoughts.
Think in terms of optimism and concrete solutions to spelled-out problems, and your anxiety chemical gets shut off. Staying connected to others and checking your beliefs against reality keeps your dopamine levels up, while isolating yourself and thinking bleak thoughts drop it through the floor. Even physically smiling without any emotion behind it has been shown to raise your serotonin level.
That is why counseling is required with psych meds -- so you build skills and get to the point of no longer needing them.
I do agree that most of us can navigate our chemical space and modulate given the right skill set. I've learned this from Thich Nhat Hanh. It is still chemical in nature. This doesn't mean there is a magic pill fix all of course.
I also want to mention that I do not think people with mental illness can influence their illness via practice across the board either. I suspect a schizophrenic's hallucinations are not something that can be willed away.
I also want to mention that I do not think people with mental illness can influence their illness via practice across the board either. I suspect a schizophrenic's hallucinations are not something that can be willed away.
Having worked directly with hospitalized, acutely-psychotic schizophrenics for many years, I absolutely agree with you.
I'm not sure---maybe because he's not taught very extensively in most clinical psychology or psychiatry training, or because his theories don't form a practical basis for the kind of psychotherapy practiced nowadays.
I think Joe Campbell was about the last person to talk about Jung at length. Campbell was no psychologist, but what these two had in common was a deep interest in mythologies of the world. We seem to have lost this element now days.
Your chemicals do not MAKE you act the way you do. They are chemical in effect, not in origin. You ARE your chemicals and you control them, however unwittingly, with your thoughts and actions. Say you and I are looking at exactly the same event at the same moment. If you think, "Well, it's about time that happened," you'll experience relief or pleasure, at least satisfaction. If I look at it and think "Holy crap, this could turn out to be terrible," I am saying something to make myself anxious, even hopeless. Thoughts control emotions, and you control your thoughts.
Think in terms of optimism and concrete solutions to spelled-out problems, and your anxiety chemical gets shut off. Staying connected to others and checking your beliefs against reality keeps your dopamine levels up, while isolating yourself and thinking bleak thoughts drop it through the floor. Even physically smiling without any emotion behind it has been shown to raise your serotonin level.
That is why counseling is required with psych meds -- so you build skills and get to the point of no longer needing them.
I don't think it's either/or but rather both. Our environment and what happens to us affects our chemical makeup. Conversely, we can influence our chemical makeup to some extent by practicing good mental hygiene.
I don't think it's either/or but rather both. Our environment and what happens to us affects our chemical makeup. Conversely, we can influence our chemical makeup to some extent by practicing good mental hygiene.
Lodestar,
What you wrote has merit, though much will depend on the specific illness and specific circumstances. Over the past 30 years or so, several major disorders that were once thought to be intractable have been "cured" by the administration of certain "influencers" (my term) -- drugs that act by changing the way our body's own neuro-chemicals are created, used, stored and eliminated.
A key point, and one I don't think has been mentioned in this thread. ALL human behaviors, including even the most bizarre behaviors of actively psychotic people, are best understood as attempts to cope with the world they perceive. Sometimes, before improved mental hygiene practices can do a person any good at all, their ability to accurately perceive the world must be created or improved. This is one role that prescribed medications play.
They make up new diagnosis and remove old ones. Like how they got rid of non-heterosexuals, and replaced it with binge eating, leaving sex addiction, and people/children suffering from separation of marriage issues. When binge eating is popular again, and we are over crowded, the idea of having sex with many partners will be considered a reason to pop pills. The whole thing is designed to pop pills and keep people employed. That is it.
Their are people who need help, but then their are people who needs jobs, and have carrer goals. Take drug offenders and wayward children. You need an ex drug offender or ex wayward person to help another one out, or you need to be heavily associated with the person, like an Truman officer.
You have good people taking up psychology who are really into it, and they get pushed away and out of the field by those criminal types, who do not really help anybody at all. Then you have people who are setup to take on cases, and talk with people just for getting an paycheck.
IN MY OPINION, psychology is a religion for people who want control and power, psychology is a way for people to get paid doing next to nothing at all, because their rich rich, patients just need a professional to talk with. They even have poor patients with problems and that needs a professional to talk with. But the government covers the bill.
Unless you have been hardships in your life, like an lawyer, who was a victim of the system, there is no real reason to be into this field. Then again a person could be a broke, with nothing in their name, at all, and have a baby to take care of. That desperate WAYWARD person really needs the job, because they feel they have no other options in their lives, and nothing to go back to, or fall back on.
Psychology is one of those "I have no real home, or real areas of studies job", and the sad part is that is it really respected. It is a poor persons way out of being poor, by calling themselves a professional. In fact being a professional, they could prescribe and order various things, to do the job too.
I am sorry I dislike the idea of the field. I had bad experiences with people, and it always the same story. I never heard a person said, "I am taking up this, because it helps people". All I heard is money, and they have nothing else better to do in life. I mean that is sad in my opinion.
That is your opinion. I will, and do, defend/support your rights to have it, and to express it. With that said, however, I shudder when I contemplate what must have led you to this conclusion/opinion.
This is not the place to discuss it, obviously.
With regards, and more than a tiny bit of concern,
What you wrote has merit, though much will depend on the specific illness and specific circumstances. Over the past 30 years or so, several major disorders that were once thought to be intractable have been "cured" by the administration of certain "influencers" (my term) -- drugs that act by changing the way our body's own neuro-chemicals are created, used, stored and eliminated.
A key point, and one I don't think has been mentioned in this thread. ALL human behaviors, including even the most bizarre behaviors of actively psychotic people, are best understood as attempts to cope with the world they perceive. Sometimes, before improved mental hygiene practices can do a person any good at all, their ability to accurately perceive the world must be created or improved. This is one role that prescribed medications play.
Can't agree with you more. The relationship between the healer and the healed is an interdependent one from my perspective.
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