Recovery from/Adjustment to BPD? (addiction, sociopaths, narcissists, anxiety)

[Fiddlehead]

Howdy all,

I am thinking about a loved one again with some Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) symptoms. She thinks if she gets help with her drinking, everything will be great. I am all for that, and fully supportive, but I don't think that is the whole story. She pointedly asked me about our son this week (what is wrong with the kid???!!!), who has some emotional problems, and I suggested I thought BPD was likely the issue (he has periodic extreme anger, coupled with irrational behavior (threats, paranoid ideation, etc.)), and I said that I think it runs in the family. She reacted defensively, of course, and is trying to prove me wrong. Though, to her credit, she did not blow a gasket. However, I think, in her calmer moments, she is starting to research things. That is good, because I think that BPD is the source of a lot of her angst and challenges too. I suspect she is a subclinical case; he is probably clinical level.

Anyhow, when you read stories about BPD online, it seems like the most extreme cases get shared, and also people ascribed all sorts of horrible traits to BPD people. I am sure they apply in some cases, but in more cases, I suspect that they are parents, friends, partners who really care about the people in their lives and want to do good, but seem to have blind spots such that their actions alienate or abuse those they love. Somehow, they can't seem to be able to see beyond their own pain to realize that in many cases they are stabbing themselves in the back and sabotaging their families too. They are flawed and have many issues, but they are not sociopaths. And they can be situationally cruel, but are typically not malicious.

I need some encouragement. Anyone know of someone with BPD or BPD traits that was able to recover or regain control of their life?

[Rusty Avocado]

I could be wrong but I have read that if you interact with a true borderline that you will never know what hit you and certainly never forget it. They come at you like a tornado and leave disaster in their wake. I think what you are describing is less borderline and more like someone bipolar or suffering some other problem. The child sounds more like oppositional defiant disorder or some other anger management problem or something like that. I'm not a therapist and can't diagnose of course...but that's my opinion. Plus maybe we don't have enough details about her behavior to help.

Sorry that wasn't particularly encouraging like you asked for...

[newerabuzz]

I am a true Borderline (Male) I have all the traits except mutilation and suicide ideation. I have abandonment issues, Paranoid ideation, quick mood changes, impulsive behavior, anger, at times severe dissociation (in the past sex addiction and some substance abuse -alcohol) A possible anxiety disorder -likely PTSD- And unspecified depression. I can be difficult at times- have alienated many in my past. Getting the right diagnoses is paramount. Been in therapy three years- and in DBT for 6 months (its making a difference I feel already) One can 'recover' from BPD and be relieved of many of the symptoms. I have suffered from this all my life- even as a child- its no joke. I function at a moderate level- can hold a job with low stress, and take care of myself well (I am a great cook). We are real people, that suffer, and have great courage to live with this. I now seek people for relationships that are supportive to a degree- and I tell them I suffer from this and explain what it is. Those in my past who will not give me another look, now that I am getting better- well hey, you win some and you lose some in life.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by newerabuzz

I am a true Borderline (Male) I have all the traits except mutilation and suicide ideation. I have abandonment issues, Paranoid ideation, quick mood changes, impulsive behavior, anger, at times severe dissociation (in the past sex addiction and some substance abuse -alcohol) A possible anxiety disorder -likely PTSD- And unspecified depression. I can be difficult at times- have alienated many in my past. Getting the right diagnoses is paramount. Been in therapy three years- and in DBT for 6 months (its making a difference I feel already) One can 'recover' from BPD and be relieved of many of the symptoms. I have suffered from this all my life- even as a child- its no joke. I function at a moderate level- can hold a job with low stress, and take care of myself well (I am a great cook). We are real people, that suffer, and have great courage to live with this. I now seek people for relationships that are supportive to a degree- and I tell them I suffer from this and explain what it is. Those in my past who will not give me another look, now that I am getting better- well hey, you win some and you lose some in life.

Glad to hear you are accepting yourself newerabuzz. And to see that you are open about your challenges. I think that is the hardest part for those with BPD-to let go of the denial.

What do you like about DBT? If I might ask...

[magpiehere]

Originally Posted by newerabuzz

I am a true Borderline (Male) I have all the traits except mutilation and suicide ideation. I have abandonment issues, Paranoid ideation, quick mood changes, impulsive behavior, anger, at times severe dissociation (in the past sex addiction and some substance abuse -alcohol) A possible anxiety disorder -likely PTSD- And unspecified depression. I can be difficult at times- have alienated many in my past. Getting the right diagnoses is paramount. Been in therapy three years- and in DBT for 6 months (its making a difference I feel already) One can 'recover' from BPD and be relieved of many of the symptoms. I have suffered from this all my life- even as a child- its no joke. I function at a moderate level- can hold a job with low stress, and take care of myself well (I am a great cook). We are real people, that suffer, and have great courage to live with this. I now seek people for relationships that are supportive to a degree- and I tell them I suffer from this and explain what it is. Those in my past who will not give me another look, now that I am getting better- well hey, you win some and you lose some in life.

Thank you for posting this. I am in week 3-4 of recovery from a BPD-NPD possibly Psychopath relationship. Waking up from Cognitive Dissonance is the most painful experience of my life. I was a perfect target for him.

He spoke of BPD often but so many traits fit the Psychopath, like he followed a manual of how to damage people. Some days I have compassion for him, I think he started out as a sweet little boy that got damaged somewhere. That is the way he told it.

I am asking respectfully, kindly: Do you know that you hurt people? Do you enjoy it? Are the games for kicks or do you unknowingly manipulate someone? Is gaslighting intentional? Did you ever have true love or attachment to others? (my guy def. loves his brother and is very protective, which threw me off) Does BPD get better or worse with age? I found my guy was accelerating into bad territory. I got the impression he was able to be "normal" for quite awhile when married to his wife.

If you have a soul in there I am very sorry for your pain. I am impressed you are working on it. I was very supportive and nurturing for him, even after I found out the deal. I believe he was worth the effort. It didn't matter. He still found great delight in simply using me for painful "fun".

[newerabuzz]

Fiddleheadhead

DBT has made me see myself in a 360 degree view. I try and look at human relationships now in neither a good or bad way- before I would idealize- then when that person disappointed me, or I had the 'paranoid' ideas of rejection- then I would discard them, or become angry. Not judging someone or an event as 'good or bad' is the first step in better interpersonal relationships. I tend to dissociate as well - so the major component of DBT is mindfulness- using your 'wise mind' instead of using 'emotion mind' where I can become angry, or impulsive. Being more 'self centric' taking hold of your mind is very important. Also if I make mistakes I am less critical of myself. Much is starting to 'kick in' now- its like a flame really, and builds inside of you. I have had lots of stuff hit more over the last few weeks. I went into emotion mind-- just really could not help it- but now I am becoming rational pulling out of 'emotion mind' and going back to wise mind. DBT can help a patient lose some of their symptoms over time- it takes dedication, desire, and lots of work.

[newerabuzz]

Magpiehere

I was involved with someone I broke up with 3.5 years ago who was very likely NPD with some psychopathy- these people are predators- and they do like Borderlines! The Narcissist needs to be in a co dependent relationship. Someone who will stick by him/her- its a toxic dance! It took me 3 years to become unmeshed from this person- Borderlines are very different- then either A NPD or a Psychopath. We do have empathy- care too deeply- and have 'no skin'- Believe me if you want to talk about 'evil' there is nothing more toxic then A Narcissist or Psychopath- they overlap- All Psychopath's are extreme narcissists, but not all narcissists are psychopaths.

Sometimes with personality disorders there is a 20-30% chance of a narcissist having some traits of BPD. Narcissists and Psychopath's are highly egocentric (borderlines have a low self worth) Those with BPD have no sense of self- of who they are- while a NPD also suffers from no sense of self- so they erect a 'False Persona' Which is grandiose, omnipotent and 'perfect'- they are seen as 'Perfect people' but the 'False Self' is empty. Narcissists have no empathy, very little conscience - they seem to have no humanity- more like machines then people. the same can be said of the Psychopath. The Narcissist needs 'narcissistic supply'- others to recognize his brilliance and superiority over others. The psychopath is as Grandiose- but does not need 'adulation from others'. Borderlines have too many emotions - NPD and Psychopaths have almost no emotion's, they cannot feel anything or ever love another. Borderlines do love- but their emotions get in the way of their relationships. 'Anti Social Personality Disorder' is the newer term for a Sociopath or Psychopath- (there are difference between the two). Borderlines have far greater success in recovery then an NPD or Psychopath- since they think they are 'perfect' and blame others for their problems.

Borderlines have shame and remorse after they hurt others- usually because of perceived rejection/abandonment. Borderlines have insight into their problems once they become diagnosed and go into therapy. NPD or a Psychopath has NO remorse- since in having no empathy they do not see others as being 'real'. I was a victim of a narcissist/psychopath- got sucked in by the charm, the charisma -- sold me the lie - that they where my 'soul mate' - it was a one way relationship- I gave and got little in return. Once I began to pull away and no longer offer 'supply' then the 'gas lighting' began, the abuse, the devaluing- its taken me 3 years to rebuild my self esteem- which was shaky to begin with. Only a narcissist will employ 'gas lighting' never a borderline. Borderlines will 'manipulate' if they fear of being abandoned'. Both narcissists and Borderlines fear being abandoned - however this is the primary trait of the Borderline, while lack of empathy is the defining trait of the narcissist.

But now after having received the lesson of a lifetime after being involved with a psychopath - I consider myself a far smarter person when engaging others. And I will let the other person know of my BPD- I suggest you do more research into the cluster B group of personality disorders- you seem confused here --Narcissist's and Borderlines are in the cluster B group- but are very different.

From the Mayo Clinic


Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

• Believing that you're better than others
• Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
• Exaggerating your achievements or talents
• Expecting constant praise and admiration
• Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
• Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
• Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
• Taking advantage of others
• Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
• Being jealous of others
• Believing that others are jealous of you
• Trouble keeping healthy relationships
• Setting unrealistic goals
• Being easily hurt and rejected
• Having a fragile self-esteem
• Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

BPD Symptoms in DSM-V

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., substance abuse, binge eating, and reckless driving)
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

[magpiehere]

newerabuzz - thank you so much for answering. This is why I am so confused. He has BPD traits and speaks of it like he owns it. He tells me how insecure and how his whole life he has been told he isn't worth anything. He appears super sensitive and has a lot of "friends" - but his behaviors towards me were like a NPD or P manual. We had a major blowout and he said how remorseful he was etc. but his words don't match his actions like ever. the whole love bomb, relationship maintanence downgrade, devalue, withholding to control, and the lying, nonstop. It seemed like BPDs do that too ? But I guess intention is what I latch onto.

I found out pretty much everything he has told me is a lie. I didn't know if that fit into BPD.

Mostly I think I can feel some compassion for him if it is BPD but with his sexual predatory nature especially and deception he isn't really BPD. I haven't found readings on BPDs that they deliberately torture people emotionally for fun. And when I saw the mask slip I even said "Wow, I've never met this "Tom" before. Where is the Tom I usually know". And the mirroring. Is it that severe with BPDs too? he word for word mirrors any woman he has a sexual interest in (which is all of them). With one he says how shy he is, another how accomplilshed he is sexually and what an exhibitionist, etc. So maddening. And all feelings/attachments I have are manufactured from the air. So, of course, I don't think he has any feelings for me. 9 months of my life, he moves out of the house he is selling in his divorce but doesn't tell me?? Oy.

I am just having a hard time accepting that everything out of his mouth was a calculated choice for an agenda, if that is what it is. One time when I told him I was leaving him he very much panicked, it was very strange since all his actions clearly said he did not want me at all. I find that weird - why ignore and treat your woman like **** if you don't want her to leave?

Regardless, I wasted 9 months of my life.

[newerabuzz]

Borderlines live a tough life. Many are not employable- no matter how intelligent they may be. Most are under employed. DBT can help a Borderline recover some of their Psych-Social skills, occupationally its a bit harder. Since most of us are so fragmented.

Borderlines do not lie pathologically - Narcissist's and Psychopath's do. The other main feature of the NPD or Psychopath is dominance, superiority, power, achievement and control. Since they have no empathy- never expect them to validate or understand your needs and desires. You are simply there to admire their 'greatness' you will always be inferior. Also Narcissists seldom change, since they think they are 'perfect'- they will degrade the therapist or clinician! Actually therapy for a Psychopath is counterproductive and will not succeed either since the P will use the knowledge to hurt others.

As for the Sexual compulsion-Narcs can be 'Somatic' where they use their body as a means to find 'narcissistic supply'. Borderlines use sex to help take away the 'pain' they feel- Borderlines can leave a trail of destruction behind as well- but differently- they are more over the top in their emotions. Narcs are far more covert and subtle- but in the end that will eat away at your self esteem more then someone who is just wildly emotional.. Borderlines lack the 'mirroring power of a NARC- we are more empathic to others needs. A Narc will mirror your needs- see them- and become the person you desire- but that's it- they will never care about you- ever- believe me after what I went though- I saw something very unique.

Narcs will use psychological 'projection' as a means to spew their shortcomings on to you- and blame you for the failure of the relationship. As for myself My relationship's have failed from unrealistically looking to people for validation and caregiving- when they do not live up to my expectation's - I can become impulsive, angry and vengeful. No one will give you validation except yourself. I used to blame others as well- that's the 'cluster B group' but today I see how my mental illness has affected me- now I have learned to take responsibility for myself in the past I made mistakes because of the BPD.

I feel now that I have so much work to do on myself- that being in a relationship now is not the answer for me- its not going to make my life wonderful. I feel when I do not need someone to 'fix me' I will be strong to have a mutual reciprocal relationship that is healthy. I suggest you continue in your healing. If you are in therapy- stay there. Find out about yourself- there are reasons you became involved with this person- they -Narcs and Psychopath's go after people with identity issue, they have the uncanny ability to see your weaknesses very soon after meeting you. A good book to read is 'Psychopath Free' by PEACE- After three years I have begun to recover or find my identity - and have gone 'no contact' with my abuser- who is now out looking for a new 'Target.

[magpiehere]

newerabuzz - I know you are undergoing a challenge of improving yourself, but, I want you to know, being candid and sharing is very very helpful to me, and likely to others. Please know that something positive in sharing your POV occurs. I am very grateful (mostly because I'm not lied to but getting insight - hooray)

After your last post, this sounds nuts but I think my guy was pretending to be BPD. A Narc pretending to be BPD. I am laughing at the absurdity of it all.

I found that P site. Very helpful. I still don't know if the overemotional guy is him (BPD) or Mr predatory (P/Narc). That is what troubles me. If he really is that damaged "little boy" leaving him is twisting me up, esp. because he just started a new job and is in the middle of a divorce (takes a year in my state).

And I did realize what a great target I was later. I am a widow, lonely, and ill - to the point where I could be dead within three years. I am also very cool though and fun, and have known and loved decent men with integrity. I have known normal jerks before too of course. This is just so 'out there'. I was a good loyal wife who supported her husband 'no matter what'. I just don't want to believe the next "great guy" who is into me can't be trust, if there ever is another one. People have been good to me my whole life, even when I don't deserve it, so I try to extend that to others, as long as they don't take advantage. I always thought that was my gift, I'm open and accepting of others and people feel safe being vulnerable around me. I can't believe that was used against me. Oy vey.

Ty again. Please keep informing. You are worth knowing.