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When communism arrives in any country, historically, it was extreme abuses of capitalism that created it, a la Russia/Lenin. "We'll starve under the current system, and we may starve under communism, but let's give it a try!" Poison 1 or Poison 2!
It's not surprising at all that Cuba succumbed to communism. Poison 1, or Poison 2!
Nicaragua and Venezuela are quite similar. The people felt that they had no other choices. But the rich never suffered, the rich in Venezuela and Nicaragua were all bundled up in planes, headed for Miami, before the new leaders were elected.
When it really comes down to it, excessive capitalism brings about socialism and communism.
And when you realize that the media is owned by big corporations there's never going to be any unbiased reporting of communism and socialism.
When communism arrives in any country, historically, it was extreme abuses of capitalism that created it, a la Russia/Lenin. "We'll starve under the current system, and we may starve under communism, but let's give it a try!" Poison 1 or Poison 2!
It's not surprising at all that Cuba succumbed to communism. Poison 1, or Poison 2!
Nicaragua and Venezuela are quite similar. The people felt that they had no other choices. But the rich never suffered, the rich in Venezuela and Nicaragua were all bundled up in planes, headed for Miami, before the new leaders were elected.
When it really comes down to it, excessive capitalism brings about socialism and communism.
And when you realize that the media is owned by big corporations there's never going to be any unbiased reporting of communism and socialism.
Go back to my post #61. We know a fear of communism was in the mind of President Theodore Roosevelt, which might be part of what motivated him to reign in capitalism by federal means (although we also know that the young Teddy Roosevelt was already Progressively minded even before he entered the political sphere).
When communism arrives in any country, historically, it was extreme abuses of capitalism that created it, a la Russia/Lenin. "We'll starve under the current system, and we may starve under communism, but let's give it a try!" Poison 1 or Poison 2!
Russia was a feudal monarchy, right? Mostly rural peasants. I'm not sure what was capitalist about it.
If you drop the buzzwords, all human societies share resources to accomplish things that can't be done by an individual. This starts at the level of the nuclear family and children doing chores, and expands from there. Any human association that requires sharing of labor or wealth can be termed "socialist." So yes, socialism is not only tolerated by humans, it's a requirement for a successful society.
Our modern technical society has a vast array of socialist structures, including police and military, streets and roads, fire protection, schools, courts, government, sewers, water projects, communication systems, air traffic control, waste disposal, etc. The one thing these systems all have in common is that they are beyond the scope of individual effort, so people have organized to accomplish desired ends, to the benefit of everyone.
Where the rubber hits the road in American society is in social welfare programs like food, housing and health care. At the core, the conflict is that social welfare programs do not benefit everyone, which causes resentment among those who are left out. The level of ongoing support that should be provided is the subject of heated debate.
If you drop the buzzwords, all human societies share resources to accomplish things that can't be done by an individual. This starts at the level of the nuclear family and children doing chores, and expands from there. Any human association that requires sharing of labor or wealth can be termed "socialist." So yes, socialism is not only tolerated by humans, it's a requirement for a successful society.
Our modern technical society has a vast array of socialist structures, including police and military, streets and roads, fire protection, schools, courts, government, sewers, water projects, communication systems, air traffic control, waste disposal, etc. The one thing these systems all have in common is that they are beyond the scope of individual effort, so people have organized to accomplish desired ends, to the benefit of everyone.
Where the rubber hits the road in American society is in social welfare programs like food, housing and health care. At the core, the conflict is that social welfare programs do not benefit everyone, which causes resentment among those who are left out. The level of ongoing support that should be provided is the subject of heated debate.
Not that simple.
I've never called the fire department. I've never called the police and gotten a good result. I don't have children in school. There are people who will claim no personal gain from a good many of those services.
OTOH, there is always the possibility that I might need any of them, and I'll acknowledge that society in general is better because of them, even if I don't personally benefit from them.
It's not an issue of "who benefits," it's really a cultural problem in the US of specific things this society considers the consequences of moral turpitude. It's a religious attitude that has become embedded as a cultural moral tenet:
If this disaster happens to you, then you deserve it.
You must you must be lazy, you must be, in some way, a bad person. You deserve it, and morality demands that you suffer for it.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 05-15-2019 at 10:16 AM..
Sweden is hell if you’re in business.... impossible environment to achieve ROI goals. It’s also full of Muslim immigrants who have been sending the crime wave sky high, rabid feminists who are destroying the fabric of family life, and an insane political system where nothing seems to effectively work to the will of the majority. And it’s climate makes Calgary seem warm and inviting... Nope Sweden isn’t a poster child for anything except misery.
The bolded lets me know what kind of person you are. "Rabid feminists"?
Yet Sweden has a much happier population than ours. The U.S. doesn't even rank in the top 10, which is filled with the Nordic countries.
In real life people like socialism because of the promise of free stuff that someone else (besides them) is paying for.
Ugh ... free stuff. You know who else gets handed free stuff? Victims of Human Trafficking:
"Here's a roof over your head, food to eat, clothing to wear & basic hygiene items. Most people from your country would be thrilled to be where you are & have all this provided for them. Now, go make me a sandwich before you pick up my kids from school ..."
Recently seen in the comments on a YouTube live video stream of the Venezuelan protests was something to the effect that: "Socialism is something you can vote your way into but you'll have to shoot your way out of."
I would only add that the last part becomes almost impossible if the new government disarms its voting public against an armed police and military.
Food for thought. The Bernie fans and bring-back-socialism crowd in the UK forget that there are other socialisms alive and kicking, besides the warm-and-fuzzy kind, that they envision.If you point that out to them, even the ones in the UK, they ask if you're a Trump supporter.
Food for thought. The Bernie fans and bring-back-socialism crowd in the UK forget that there are other socialisms alive and kicking, besides the warm-and-fuzzy kind, that they envision.If you point that out to them, even the ones in the UK, they ask if you're a Trump supporter.
I'm an eastern liberal Massachusetts Republican. I roll my eyes just as much at Bernie as I do the George Wallace Democrats who took over the Republican party. I kind of like clean water and clean air. I'm fine with a safety net as long as it doesn't perpetuate generational poverty. I think everyone should get basic, bare-bones health care but it should be biased to penalize behavior-induced chronic health problems. I like the German education model. College is free but you need to test in the top 5% to get that free college. Not everyone wins a prize. For everyone else, there's lifetime vocational education.
People, remember which forum you're in when you post. This is the Psychology forum, not the P&OC forum. I've deleted quite a number of way-off-topic posts, but others remain. I'm giving up on salvaging the thread. It is now closed.
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