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A single unemployed woman may find it easier to find a place to stay than a man, just from having a social network, and being homeless is more dangerous for a woman than for a man.
And men do not have social networks?
Being homeless may be more dangerous for a woman, but they are viewed in the same way.
I’m not married (and have never been in the situation), but this is ridiculous (and outdated) to assume. For one thing, I think it’s a fair statement most of us look for independent women who have a job/career/life, among other things. To suggest we are on the prowl for a woman who can’t take care of herself so we can have ‘power’ (and essentially abuse or control her) is malarkey. Maybe you have had a bad experience in the past, which I am sorry if that is the case, but don’t paint all men with the same brush.
Believe it or not, some of us are capable of finding a beautiful woman (on the inside and out) who is intelligent and able to support herself, without worrying she will leave us - lol. We don’t need to ‘lock her in the closet’, so to speak, to be comfortable as a couple or to respect her as an individual capable of making her own choices (whether that means working or not, if married, or kids/no kids).
Hey, hey. Please go re-read my very first sentence because I think that you missed a wee bit of grammar there.
I wasn't saying at all that men, all men, are locking women at home and preventing us from having careers. My ex didn't even do that, he wanted me to work! No, I was speculating on the possible mindset of those few men out there who DO insist that the wife stay home. I think it's rare, and I was trying to ponder why it might be. I mean, in addition to the reasons I gave, they might just be very traditionalist and believe that it is right.
But no, I wasn't saying that men in general do this. Just thinking about why a few might. Those few who INSIST ON THE WIFE NOT WORKING. As I said.
Apologies for miscommunication.
/end reply
/begin other thought with regard to the thread in general.
I am a spreadsheet obsessed person, I love Excel like I love few other things in life. And I've listed, charted, and analyzed every detail of my existence to within an inch of its life, as much as I am able, in this way. And one thing I know, is how much time since 1997 when I became an adult, and met my ex, we have respectively spent unemployed, versus employed, and where we worked at any point in our timeline. He has job-hopped a great deal more than me, and spent far more time unemployed. But when we actually HAD jobs, both of us at the same time, he usually made more. No matter what we were doing.
Until more recent years, where he's taken any job he could get, and I've stuck with the same career path for most of these years.
But one thing has been true. I've worked HARDER when unemployed, than I do when I have a job. When I'm not working, I do every single other thing. I get the best prices on everything we have to buy, I conserve resources obsessively, I keep everything perfectly clean, I did every parenting task, and at all times I managed our money when we were together. When I had a job, I would expect help with some of the cleaning, which usually meant it wouldn't get done as religiously since no one cared as much as I did. If I asked him to keep the house clean during his unemployed times, he'd simply yell at our kids and try to make them do it, and spend tons of time playing computer games.
And being unemployed was damaging to his mental health, because he felt like "no one respected him" (because the kids weren't always perfectly obedient to his demands) and he felt like he had no purpose in life. During the last period of unemployment before we broke up, I begged him to find something to do. Even volunteering for a Veterans' charity or an animal shelter or just...something, anything. Because he was sitting around being depressed and angry, and terrorizing everyone in the house.
This is a problem that I never had, during my relatively brief times as a housewife, between jobs.
I wasn't saying at all that men, all men, are locking women at home and preventing us from having careers. My ex didn't even do that, he wanted me to work! No, I was speculating on the possible mindset of those few men out there who DO insist that the wife stay home. I think it's rare, and I was trying to ponder why it might be. I mean, in addition to the reasons I gave, they might just be very traditionalist and believe that it is right.
But no, I wasn't saying that men in general do this. Just thinking about why a few might. Those few who INSIST ON THE WIFE NOT WORKING. As I said.
Apologies for miscommunication.
Apparently there was miscommunication - and I apologize as well, because I did not interpret your remarks as something you believed to be ‘rare’; rather, it appeared you were attributing most decisions about staying home/children to the man for ‘power’ and/or to treat his wife as some sort of ‘assistant’, or even because he saw it as ‘better’, he’s a traditionalist, etc (or any reason instead of also looking to the woman). The reality, at least how I see it, is both people make that decision as a couple in how they want to raise a child (if they even want a kid). In most homes, it would be my guess women are making that decision. Of course, there are many households in which there is no choice or decision to be made about staying home - both must work to financially raise a family. That’s why your comments appeared slanted to/biased against ‘wealthy’ men or ‘power seeking’ men when, in fact, the decision is on the wife (more often than not when it comes to kids). It should all be discussed prior to any serious relationship or marriage to avoid conflict when/if it happens. Unfortunately, I don’t think enough bother to do so.
There are a few feminists who blame men for all of society’s ills (and see every man as controlling). My apology if I misread. In my opinion, however, it’s not a ‘male/female issue’ - an unemployed female or an unemployed male are viewed in the same way. Both are expected to work and support themselves. A SAHM (or Dad) is not ‘unemployed’.
Why are females with grown or no kids typically not expected to contribute in most cultures? I noticed this living throughout the EU just as much as the US..
Because they contribute a lot. It is just not monetized.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
9,297 posts, read 4,583,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
Apparently there was miscommunication - and I apologize as well, because I did not interpret your remarks as something you believed to be ‘rare’; rather, it appeared you were attributing most decisions about staying home/children to the man for ‘power’ and/or to treat his wife as some sort of ‘assistant’, or even because he saw it as ‘better’, he’s a traditionalist, etc (or any reason instead of also looking to the woman). The reality, at least how I see it, is both people make that decision as a couple in how they want to raise a child (if they even want a kid). In most homes, it would be my guess women are making that decision. Of course, there are many households in which there is no choice or decision to be made about staying home - both must work to financially raise a family. That’s why your comments appeared slanted to/biased against ‘wealthy’ men or ‘power seeking’ men when, in fact, the decision is on the wife (more often than not when it comes to kids). It should all be discussed prior to any serious relationship or marriage to avoid conflict when/if it happens. Unfortunately, I don’t think enough bother to do so.
There are a few feminists who blame men for all of society’s ills (and see every man as controlling). My apology if I misread. In my opinion, however, it’s not a ‘male/female issue’ - an unemployed female or an unemployed male are viewed in the same way. Both are expected to work and support themselves. A SAHM (or Dad) is not ‘unemployed’.
Ita....but the less educated (or older) the man... the more likely he does not share such *enlightened* views. Stay at home dads are rare....I don't know if it's because it's rare for the female to make so much more money than the man she marries, or...is it because he doesn't want to stay home? Or both???
The OP still hasn't told us what bubble he inhabits, where women with no kids somehow get a free ride, and aren't expected to work, and magically don't need to work.
The OP still hasn't told us what bubble he inhabits, where women with no kids somehow get a free ride, and aren't expected to work, and magically don't need to work.
WTH?!
I think this was his agenda all along...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJT
I agree with most replies here income inequality and opportunity inequality is a myth.
Apparently there was miscommunication - and I apologize as well, because I did not interpret your remarks as something you believed to be ‘rare’; rather, it appeared you were attributing most decisions about staying home/children to the man for ‘power’ and/or to treat his wife as some sort of ‘assistant’, or even because he saw it as ‘better’, he’s a traditionalist, etc (or any reason instead of also looking to the woman). The reality, at least how I see it, is both people make that decision as a couple in how they want to raise a child (if they even want a kid). In most homes, it would be my guess women are making that decision. Of course, there are many households in which there is no choice or decision to be made about staying home - both must work to financially raise a family. That’s why your comments appeared slanted to/biased against ‘wealthy’ men or ‘power seeking’ men when, in fact, the decision is on the wife (more often than not when it comes to kids). It should all be discussed prior to any serious relationship or marriage to avoid conflict when/if it happens. Unfortunately, I don’t think enough bother to do so.
There are a few feminists who blame men for all of society’s ills (and see every man as controlling). My apology if I misread. In my opinion, however, it’s not a ‘male/female issue’ - an unemployed female or an unemployed male are viewed in the same way. Both are expected to work and support themselves. A SAHM (or Dad) is not ‘unemployed’.
I actually have known men who were fairly insistent that the wife should not work.
One of them brought a bride here from another country. He found her online when she was 16, spent 2 years grooming...I mean talking to...her... And then went and married and fetched her as soon as she was legal. He was trying to demand that she stay home, and produce two children. She had one, and got a degree (which he paid for, thinking it was simply a cute hobby to keep her busy) but then, she acclimated, learned the language, and got a pretty great job, and refused to have a second kid. They divorced recently.
Another instance is a woman who lives in poverty in Tennessee, whose husband wants her to be home at all times taking care of the children. He is physically violent to all of them, and her teenage son now beats her, too.
Another was the man my Mom married after she divorced my Dad. Her parents pushed her to marry this guy, she didn't even really like him. He was rich, had a gorgeous house up in the Blue Ridge Mountains and he did not like her to leave the house. He also did not like her to have her kids (me, or my little brother) up to visit. He saw her as a bought-and-paid-for sex toy, and she related to me some of the fetishes he expected her to comply with...which she was not into... She tried to make a go of it, but wound up annulling the marriage within a week of the wedding and fleeing in the night.
With the rich and powerful types, I was thinking about how (as far as I know, admittedly I don't know the details) if one's husband is a very powerful or successful person, it could be helpful to be willing to assist in terms of PR or administrative work. I mean, I'm thinking of like a Sharon Osbourne. Now she has done a lot more than just help Ozzy, but she arguably saved his career by founding Ozzfest, or so I'm told. But I'm sure you're right that these kinds of couples likely are making mutually beneficial and mutually consented upon decisions.
Which is exactly how it should be. Nothing wrong with anyone being a stay at home partner if both people agree and consent and they can afford to live that way.
But if you think that abusive partners who keep wives financially dependent by not "letting" them work, is a non-thing that doesn't exist and never existed...well, you're wrong. It is getting rarer, I think. Because no-fault divorce lets such women leave and take half, and usually get alimony, too. But it's not a fiction.
However, I am no feminist, I have no love of such labels, they are too loaded and don't say what one means. And I most definitely don't see all men as controlling or all women as suffering under the yoke of the patriarchy or anything like that.
A SAHM or SAHD is not unemployed, if they are doing it right, I agree. I know people who have, and people who haven't, of either gender.
Ruth, for what it's worth, I've met women who were neglectful of their SAHM duties because they got hooked on World of Warcraft and sat around becoming blobs, too. I'd say just like some people can do the "home office/work from home" thing and some can't...some can do the domestic dynamo thing and some just blob out.
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