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Old 11-18-2019, 03:13 PM
 
109 posts, read 61,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Someone may get away with lying for a time. They may make millions not telling the truth. Those are people I do not intend to work with voluntarily.

It is possible to make it without lying to people. You can not generalize success and claim that every one that is successful lied to get where they are. You can choose to follow those that did it. At some time though the lie comes out and the glory fades. Think of Countrywide, Enron, and a long list of companies that were built on lies. They are gone now and the results of their actions destroyed many.
But there are still companies like Apple or Coca-Cola, which are the most successful and built on lies. I believe there are also many, many "iconic" people who took their sins to the grave and we will never know.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:59 PM
 
Location: The Carolinas
2,511 posts, read 2,818,693 times
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What is the truth and where do you find it? Seems to me, what you claim to be the truth is just another (your) opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right? They're like arseholes--everyone has one.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:05 AM
 
109 posts, read 61,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adams_aj View Post
What is the truth and where do you find it? Seems to me, what you claim to be the truth is just another (your) opinion.
You are totally wrong.
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:10 AM
 
2,391 posts, read 1,407,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imfine View Post
Any high-level professional environment, really.
This is true. One of the main goals of graduate education is not learning stuff, but becoming professionalized, learning to buy into the always somewhat self-serving ideology of the profession in question or at the very least learning to just shut up about it if you never truly become a believer.

Actually, now that I think about it, it is not just high-level professions. Let me ask you this? Who is going to be the more successful realtor? The person who takes their clients seriously when they say they want to spend no more than, say, $200,000 for their home and simply respects their decision or the person who “honestly believes” that this couple would be better served by getting a considerably more expensive home and resorts to flattery to make their point: “But surely, you will get a raise and besides, you deserve this beautiful home! Don’t worry, we have great financing!” If the second person is higher energy and more charismatic than the first, they may not only get a lot more money but also get a lot more appreciation. If later, the couple finds themselves upside-down on their mortgage, who is going to be blamed? Not the super nice realtor.

After much experience, I agree with the OP to a certain extent. There are two major ways of being conventionally successful. Either cynically buy into the overall lie of your chosen profession and milk it for all it’s worth. Of being not quite bright enough or not quite philosophical enough to understand it is actually a lie.

Of course, you can also be successful while cleaning up your profession or at least behaving as honestly and ethically as possible (e.g. you are a medical researcher who maintains a scrupulous independence from big pharma). But in general, this is much harder to achieve. You will need both extraordinary technical and interpersonal skills to pull it off and be successful.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,350,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imfine View Post
But there are still companies like Apple or Coca-Cola, which are the most successful and built on lies. I believe there are also many, many "iconic" people who took their sins to the grave and we will never know.
I am still waiting to hear about this lie that apple is pushing on everyone. Also what has Coca Cola lied about?
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:48 AM
 
2,391 posts, read 1,407,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
I am still waiting to hear about this lie that apple is pushing on everyone. Also what has Coca Cola lied about?
You can’t be serious? Really? You can’t think of a single thing?
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:33 AM
 
109 posts, read 61,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill_Schramm View Post
You can’t be serious? Really? You can’t think of a single thing?
Also Apple Dude (SOON2BNSURPRISE), just look it up, there are even articles listing Apple's lies. Do some effort if you're interested, otherwise please stay in your cosy bubble.

I will make it a bit easier for you and give you an example that I experienced myself. I got a new MacBook in 2018. It has a butterfly keyboard mechanism. Apple claims that there is a small number of users having problems with that keyboard. I know like dozen of people using them and 100% of them had to replace the keyboard at least once. For me, it was two times. What is a small number? 1%? 5%? 10%? Even if it's 20% (which is not a small number), the chance of having it f***** up twice in row is 4%. Am I really that lucky? And if you were out of your warranty, replacing that keyboard was like $300, because - like Apple always does - they need to replace half of your device, as everything's glued together. You think it was the only model with faulty keyboard? No. They put it in all MacBooks for 4 f***** consecutive years. 4 YEARS. They will tell you that's for the design, but people who haven't fallen into their sheep hole know the truth. Surprisingly, all these Apple's "amazing" features put balance to make us pay fortune for some form of illusion. I still use Apple, because they kinda don't have any real competition. They are, as a company, disgusting though.

The list of lies goes on and on. That was just one example where they force you to pay for their planned flaws. I don't even mention their overpriced and underpowered hardware. Also take a look what they did to their cameras in MacBooks, even these $3,000+ ones.

Last edited by imfine; 11-19-2019 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:50 AM
 
4,189 posts, read 3,402,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imfine View Post
I absolutely agree with you, but we are minority. People don't seem to even imagine anything beyond what we have now. Capitalism is a terrible system and no, socialism is not any better. Competitiveness is wrong and makes our souls rotten. I don't understand why vast majority of people don't see that. Ignorance is bliss, I guess...
People are born competitive, until the school systems give out awards for being a floor pillow.

That's just how we are. No sense in wasting time bemoaning natural law.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:01 PM
 
109 posts, read 61,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonchalance View Post
People are born competitive, until the school systems give out awards for being a floor pillow.

That's just how we are. No sense in wasting time bemoaning natural law.
There is no evidence for people being born competitive. Animals are not competitive, they are selfish when it comes to survival. People should aim to be above animals, not below. It looks to me like you got your facts twisted - school kills competitiveness? Dude, last time I checked, kids were competing daily. If not in contests or gym, they compare their grades.

But as we're on it, I will say a few more words why capitalism sucks in my opinion. It's a lazy system. It makes the wheel spinning no matter what. Any system that puts quantity over everything else is wrong. We end up using too much resources for what? We compete for what? Capitalism makes us zombies, destroys the planet and rewards liars. It kills any potential in human beings. Any person who was at least one foot into spirituality knows what I'm talking about. Open-minded people understand that we completely suppress our potential. Business in capitalist manner is an absurd. But we are all soaked it that sh** so heavily it makes 99% of people blind.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:18 PM
 
13,284 posts, read 8,458,170 times
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Well these posts have gone off the rail.
That's a truth.

It behooves an adult to gather the data and objectively conclude a fact vs fiction.

Intent is an element towards truth. So yes..pursue it as part of the end goal.

When folks thought the earth was flat...one man sailed the seas to challenge that statement. His discovery removed a misconception.
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