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But my interest in girls has not been excluded. I don’t understand why it’s coming across that way. I have had interests in girls plenty of times between 20 and 22. Not as frequent as my interests in guys, but they are there nonetheless. If I get aroused when I’m talking to a pretty girl, does that really not mean anything? What about the time when a pretty girl was crossing the street in front of my car and I got aroused from that? I’m gay anyway and that was just a fluke?
When my ex and I had sex the one time, I did lose my arousal midway through. But she did nothing for me. I had to do all of the work. I was extremely turned on by her both before and after that, and even after giving up on doing the deed that night, we cuddled in bed and the butterflies came back. Isn’t there a possibility that because she wasn’t doing anything, I wasn’t particularly aroused that time, and it doesn’t mean I was never into girls? She was tired, didn’t really seem that enthusiastic and there was no passion that night. Not a week later, we did some rated R action (although it did not lead to actual sex) and it was just like old times. Passionate and exciting, and my heart started racing as soon as she texted me to come over because her parents weren’t going to be home that night. I was turned on nonetheless all the other times, so I thought that was valid. Again, I’m not assuming that you think I’m gay, I’m just making it clear that my interests in girls have been plentiful in my 20s.
All but maybe one or two of the many non-exclusively heterosexual men that I've known and that I would term "gay" wouldn't dream of deliberately getting naked with a chick except maybe by force - force usually of mid-20th century "social norms." - but I don't know for sure - I'm going just on what they say & do. So what you say is somewhat unusual to me. Bisexuality in men usually presents itself incidently, and more often a bit later in life - rarely is the orientation "pre-meditated" or actually acted out in the socially developmental period (adolescent-early adult years - although I guess theoretically, it could).
There are other factors that could come into play here. Availability of easily obtained partners is an important one. Lots of willing guys and loose girls. Most guys your age are good to go three times a day if the opportunity arises. I know I was at that age. Your Catholic background could be "making" you interested in girls. But that's a thing you have to work out by yourself. Only you'll know that for sure. Good time now to ponder that. Finally, the "born horny" gene has to be considered. Men born horny can get into a lot of stuff, sometimes with less than the usual degree of even gender - based discretion. I believe it's heritable. If you have any close relatives that seem hornier than normal, that might be what's going on here.
One thing I will repeat - don't even think of getting married until you've sorted this out 100%. Divorce is a mortal sin (it alone used to be grounds for ex-communication) especially if adultery is involved. In my life I've seen several messy divorces involving bi-sexual people. And, if those guys thought that the alimony part was bad, it turned out people blab, and the wagging tongues in addition to clever divorce lawyers made it even worse.
Last edited by TwinbrookNine; 10-17-2020 at 11:33 PM..
OP, you'll never figure out what you ACTUALLY are until you get rid of the idea that you don't want to be something because of the approval or lack thereof of other people.
Throw that criteria completely out, and when you have reached that point (it doesn't seem you have yet), then you might know yourself well enough to answer the question more definitively.
When in doubt look at the science. Simon LeVay wrote "Gay Straight and the Reason Why". In it he argued that there were two different types of homosexuality. There is situational homosexuality of the type you find in Jail, in British Boarding Schools, or among the Sambia tribe. This is a situation where when males don't have access to women, they can have sex with each other. But this type of homosexuality can change. The guys who were generally straight before they had homosexual sex in jail generally go back to being straight when they get out. Most of the males who engage at British boarding schools end up sexually exclusive marriages with women when they are older. The Sambia who go through a period of sexual initiation through sex with older males in their tribe, most of these people end up in long term exclusive relationships with women when they are older. But the significance of the Sambia is that almost all males in the tribe engage in this period of homosexual sex, which suggests that if our culture was different and more like the Sambia's most males likely are capable of some sort of homosexual experience. Lisa Diamond at the University of Utah has done a bunch of research on gays and lesbians and she has documented that most gays and lesbians have had some sex with opposite sex partners, which she refers to as sexual fluidity.
I suspect the sexual things I did as a fourteen year old boy with the 14v girl who asked me to Sadie Hopkins, but who later came out as a lesbian would likely an expression of sexual fluidity. She is primarily into women, but when she was fourteen and trying to figure out her sexuality, she did some stuff with me
Now their is the second form of homosexuality the Simon LeVay talked about and LeVay argued this is caused by what happens hormonally in week 12 prenatally. Originally we all start out as females. For straight males and females at week 12, there s this burst of either testosterone or estrogen that sets off a hormone cascade that either masculinizes or feminizes our brain and our bodies. But sometimes that process doesn't go off without a hitch. Our body may release testosterone and some estrogen or vice versa and the timing might not be perfect. That hormone cascade might not go off perfectly as well. When that happens, you can end up gay, lesbian, bisexual and a lot of these other genders that stion to ome people identify with.
Yes the OP has had both some heterosexual and homosexual experiences. We don't have enough information here to know whether these gay and straight sexual experiences reflect underlying homosexuality with some situational heterosexuality or underlying heterosexuality with some situational homosexuality or whether the OP is just bisexual.
But i don't think the OP can reason and argue his way into being straight. Instead you figure it out by dating a girl and seeing how it goes. I know the OP is proud that he is a practicing Catholic. But before he gets married and has kids with someone I think he needs to figure out if he can actually maintain a sexually exclusive relationship with a straight woman. To me he needs to get in a sexual relationship with a woman for about 18 months to a 2 years to figure out if he can still stay sexually exclusive with a woman in the environment, when the honeymoon phase of the relationship has ended and he has to start dealing with the woman as she really is, not as who he wishes she was. If you can have sex with a woman for 2 years and not have a desire to go have sex with men during this period, I suspect you probably can successfully live happily with a woman for the rest of your life. On the other hand if you can't, if you find yourself having difficult performing sexually with this woman and you find yourself attracted to men well you have another type of answer.
But the big thing here to me is to actually have an actual long term sexual relationship with a woman, you are not married to and who you are not having kids with. Because what you don't want to do is get some woman knocked up and realize afterwards that you are gay. I don't think that is fair to this woman involved and I don't think that is fair to your future kids. But that is just me.
But I do think wasting time trying to argue with yourself and others over what your sexuality should be is pointless. I don't think our sexuality works that way. If you are in that category of people who were created as gay because of what happened in week 12 accept that. That may just be how God made you. That is part of life too.
If you read up on the people who got involved in Gay Conversion therapy, I think they were really sincere about trying to change who they were. The people involved were genuinely devout. Conversion therapy just hasn't worked. The Atlantic has this great article about what happened with Exodus, this Christian gay conversion ministry and just how unsuccessful it was.
All but maybe one or two of the many non-exclusively heterosexual men that I've known and that I would term "gay" wouldn't dream of deliberately getting naked with a chick except maybe by force - force usually of mid-20th century "social norms." - but I don't know for sure - I'm going just on what they say & do. So what you say is somewhat unusual to me. Bisexuality in men usually presents itself incidently, and more often a bit later in life - rarely is the orientation "pre-meditated" or actually acted out in the socially developmental period (adolescent-early adult years - although I guess theoretically, it could).
There are other factors that could come into play here. Availability of easily obtained partners is an important one. Lots of willing guys and loose girls. Most guys your age are good to go three times a day if the opportunity arises. I know I was at that age. Your Catholic background could be "making" you interested in girls. But that's a thing you have to work out by yourself. Only you'll know that for sure. Good time now to ponder that. Finally, the "born horny" gene has to be considered. Men born horny can get into a lot of stuff, sometimes with less than the usual degree of even gender - based discretion. I believe it's heritable. If you have any close relatives that seem hornier than normal, that might be what's going on here.
One thing I will repeat - don't even think of getting married until you've sorted this out 100%. Divorce is a mortal sin (it alone used to be grounds for ex-communication) especially if adultery is involved. In my life I've seen several messy divorces involving bi-sexual people. And, if those guys thought that the alimony part was bad, it turned out people blab, and the wagging tongues in addition to clever divorce lawyers made it even worse.
I refuse to believe that my Catholic background made me interested in girls, and here’s why. I was religious in middle school and part of high school, but I largely fell out of religion (for completely different reasons) around 12th grade. If I had wanted to exclusively be with guys, nothing would’ve stopped me. Religion wasn’t even prevalent at that time. I had guilt-free sex with my girlfriend because I just didn’t care. If I had wanted to be with a guy, I would’ve broken up with her and done it, but I didn’t because I was genuinely attracted to HER.
If my Catholic background really did make me straight and that was it, there would be strictly a romantic attraction. My body would not “react” the way it did when I saw a pretty girl. That cannot be controlled. Absolutely nothing can control what sends the blood rushing, including God. If I was exclusively gay to begin with, I would never once have had an interest in a girl sexually. The sight of my ex would not turn me on, nor would having an innocent conversation with a girl I fancied visually and romantically.
I have a date coming up next Friday with a girl I’ve been talking to on OkCupid. I will say that physically, she isn’t exactly my type, and I can’t stress this enough: It Is Not Because She’s a Girl. She is on the average side in terms of looks, on the heavier side. I am not repulsed by her, she’s just sort of “meh” but I’m giving her a chance because she is very nice and I’ve only seen a couple of picture that could be years old for all I know. If I’m not physically attracted to just this one girl and we don’t go on a second date, I’m not planning on turning to men. I refuse to let that one date next week be the ultimate answer...instead of enjoying getting ready for the date and enjoying myself on the date, I’ll be sick to my stomach and nervous over “finding out” the answer on that very night. I reject the notion that if I’m attracted to girls, I should want to pounce on every one of them that I see and practically be overwhelmed by their beauty, and if I don’t want to immediately pounce on even a remotely attractive girl, that I’m gay. Not everyone works that way, and many gay men don’t feel that way about every guy they see either.
For a brief moment around puberty but by the time I was 14 I had no attraction to girls. I was also virulently homophobic at that time to hide my own struggle.
Either they are bisexual to begin with or they are just choosing celibacy or a heterosexual relationship in order to be accepted by society, their families, and their church. It's a rough life, to deny yourself everything you desire in order to conform to a social norm.
Exactly. They are bisexual to begin with. So why when I describe what have been legitimate bisexual tendencies, it somehow doesn’t work out with the majority of the thread except for you? I understand that nobody is saying I am gay. But by that logic, they should be saying I have nothing to worry about. I figured since I have had genuine sexual attractions to girls in the far past and in the recent past, as recent as this past summer, I would be “safe” and definitively bi. And now no one knows what to say to me. It’s like that logic only works for the people the poster you quoted described, but not for me.
I've known gay men who dated women and even were engaged. My best friend, a woman, dated men until she was nearly forty and then met a married woman and both fell in love with each other and got married. They all said they never were attracted to same sex when younger.
I've known gay men who dated women and even were engaged. My best friend, a woman, dated men until she was nearly forty and then met a married woman and both fell in love with each other and got married. They all said they never were attracted to same sex when younger.
All I can say at this point, is that bisexuality doesn't excuse you from being ethical in how you treat others.
Being in a relationship with a woman, where you get married and have kids, and it's all hunky dory with society and your church, and secretly messing around on the side with men because once in a while you get that urge, but hiding it from your wife...that is wrong. It is objectively a terrible way to treat another human being, period.
Being in a committed relationship where you have to pretend to even be content in it, with a partner who loves you and believes that you love them, is wrong. Deceiving your partner is wrong. Using your partner is wrong. And being bisexual means that you are able to be attracted sexually to persons who are male or female, it does not mean that you have a NEED to have actual sex with both, or that you aren't capable of marital fidelity. But if you have such a need, yourself, then the only ethical way to go about it is to have an understanding partner that you can make an arrangement with, honestly.
I want to be really, really clear about this. I have known men who were gay, bi, or trans, (yes, I know, you aren't gay or trans, not saying you are) and either they weren't sure about it when younger, or they knew but thought that they could ignore or repress it and have the family life they wanted...and they got married and had a family, only to eventually feel driven to be more authentic, to act on this part of their identity. But because they obviously didn't discuss it with the woman they married, early on, or ever, it utterly destroyed the whole family unit. They try and be sneaky but they always get caught. Or they "come out" to the wife, which is horrifying to this woman who thought she knew the man she married, and it ends the relationship every. single. time. And it's hard on the kids, even if they are grown adults.
Now I have said it, and it's true...I know a lot of gay, bi, trans, etc people. I love them, I support and defend their rights. But I must say that it is unequivocally wrong to hide something like this that you know about yourself, because it would be hard to get a wife (especially a good, Catholic one) if you were honest...with the very likely possibility that it's going to cause misery and heartbreak for an entire family years down the road. It's not that being gay or bi or trans or anything is wrong, it's that deceiving others to get your way, and destroying them later, also to get your way...is wrong. The fact that these people thought that they could pull it off and just simply force themselves to be straight, and that's why they never told the wife, doesn't change that if they knew...and I suspect that, like you, they had an idea.
So the tl;dr version of this... If you can't be honest with a woman, even with a truth you don't think she will want to hear, then you have no business marrying her. You're setting yourself, her, and possible future children, up for disaster and pain. Don't do that. After all, you were able to tell all of this stuff to hundreds or thousands of strangers on the internet. You should be able to tell it to a partner.
I feel there is a problem if the OP ends up marrying a woman without ever having acted on his desire for men. I think it would eat away at him over the decades, the what-ifs? I believe it is imperative that the OP go out there and experience a sexual relationship with another man so that he can fully know what it is like, and to better know himself.
Then, after that experience, if he still wants a family and to be married to a woman, that he finds a woman who is also bisexual or is open to the fact that the OP is bisexual and is ok with that.
Anything less than the above may leave the OP wondering for decades what he is missing out on, or having to hide yearnings, and then yes, the possibility is there for infidelity at some point because opportunity presents itself. Either of those scenarios are a disservice to his wife.
It can be achieved, OP, there are plenty of people in relationships that are bisexual. The judgmental strict religious upbringing though will always be at odds with this. Therapy is absolutely necessary, probably for a long time.
All I can say at this point, is that bisexuality doesn't excuse you from being ethical in how you treat others.
Being in a relationship with a woman, where you get married and have kids, and it's all hunky dory with society and your church, and secretly messing around on the side with men because once in a while you get that urge, but hiding it from your wife...that is wrong. It is objectively a terrible way to treat another human being, period.
Being in a committed relationship where you have to pretend to even be content in it, with a partner who loves you and believes that you love them, is wrong. Deceiving your partner is wrong. Using your partner is wrong. And being bisexual means that you are able to be attracted sexually to persons who are male or female, it does not mean that you have a NEED to have actual sex with both, or that you aren't capable of marital fidelity. But if you have such a need, yourself, then the only ethical way to go about it is to have an understanding partner that you can make an arrangement with, honestly.
I want to be really, really clear about this. I have known men who were gay, bi, or trans, (yes, I know, you aren't gay or trans, not saying you are) and either they weren't sure about it when younger, or they knew but thought that they could ignore or repress it and have the family life they wanted...and they got married and had a family, only to eventually feel driven to be more authentic, to act on this part of their identity. But because they obviously didn't discuss it with the woman they married, early on, or ever, it utterly destroyed the whole family unit. They try and be sneaky but they always get caught. Or they "come out" to the wife, which is horrifying to this woman who thought she knew the man she married, and it ends the relationship every. single. time. And it's hard on the kids, even if they are grown adults.
Now I have said it, and it's true...I know a lot of gay, bi, trans, etc people. I love them, I support and defend their rights. But I must say that it is unequivocally wrong to hide something like this that you know about yourself, because it would be hard to get a wife (especially a good, Catholic one) if you were honest...with the very likely possibility that it's going to cause misery and heartbreak for an entire family years down the road. It's not that being gay or bi or trans or anything is wrong, it's that deceiving others to get your way, and destroying them later, also to get your way...is wrong. The fact that these people thought that they could pull it off and just simply force themselves to be straight, and that's why they never told the wife, doesn't change that if they knew...and I suspect that, like you, they had an idea.
So the tl;dr version of this... If you can't be honest with a woman, even with a truth you don't think she will want to hear, then you have no business marrying her. You're setting yourself, her, and possible future children, up for disaster and pain. Don't do that. After all, you were able to tell all of this stuff to hundreds or thousands of strangers on the internet. You should be able to tell it to a partner.
When straight people get married, they never get to experience sexual relationships with other people of the opposite sex besides their partner. When gay people get married and are in any sort of committed relationship, they never get to have the experience of a same-sex partner. Meanwhile, since I am bi, I am being told it will be very hard, nearly impossible, to marry a woman and not cheat on her with a man. If I was fully straight other women would cause me to turn my head when I was married. That’s a normal human reaction, but all it would be is turning my head. I would never cheat on my wife and ruin what we had. But now since I’m bi rather than fully straight, I’m automatically more likely to cheat if I only date and marry a woman. I’m sick of these massively overplayed stereotypes, and it’s exactly why I’m hesitant to even tell people this. I can understand people saying that if I don’t explore that other side of myself, I can get massive FOMO, but if I do experience it, I am not at all more likely to cheat. Because I am a faithful person who is very capable of monogamy.
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