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They do add more credibility to you if you call the police if the person gets close or makes threats.
We were unable to get a restraining order against my daughter's ex bf because the police never charged him with any crimes related to his attempts on my daughter, they instead charged him with other crimes, drunk and disorderly, etc. So in our state, we did no trespass orders filed with the sheriff. When we call, they have his description and know he has access to guns.
The problem with either option is that neither can prevent anything. That's why we are always on alert and we are armed.
Yes. Their chief value is providing a paper trail after a crime has been committed. Terrible but true.
I do not equate mental illness with violence. However there have been several high profile cases of obviously mentally ill people using guns in shootings. But not all mass killers are mentally ill, although in cases of psychopathy, there is certainly something terribly wrong with the person pulling the trigger or wielding the knife.
I have known people with bi polar disorder, and they were certainly not violent. I do not think we disagree.
Rather, we are agreeing. There are plenty mentally-ill people committing crimes. It just isn't all of them, and isn't all mentally-ill people-- and I think what we here are all hoping is that society-at-large doesn't look track of that.
The bottom line is that not all gun sales are regulated and require a background check. A felon who isn't supposed to be able to buy a gun can do so in most states at a gun show or via a private sale.
Same for those adjudicated by a court as mentally unfit, but they can pass background checks anyway by simply lying on the form.
HIPPA prevents the information from being distributed.
Now, Texas does have a thing that I guess doesn't violate HIPPA, or they do not care. IDK which, but the information about a court commitment or adjudication of mental unfitness is supposed to go to the FBI for this purpose.
IDK if they actually do. But I read they are supposed to.
As for your word games, I suppose it depends on whether one believes the ATF or websites devoted to ending gun violence.
The ATF *says* that one can be convicted for selling at gun shows w/o doing a background check even if it's only a few guns, and one is not normally 'engaged in the business' of selling guns as a livelihood.
I have no idea the level of investigation/enforcement of people selling guns w/o a license.
I do know one does not NEED a license to sell at gun shows, and therefore they don't automatically need to be set up to do background checks.
If I am merely liquidating my private collection or selling some to upgrade, I do not need a license nor do I have to do a background check.
I can sell to any felon in a full on psychotic episode at the time of sale.
And you are making the same mistake with the language as ocnjgirl. The language that the two of you have used makes it impossible to determine if you in fact understand the issue.
This is very simple. If a sale is subject to a background check, the check must be done, whether the sale happens away from a gun show, or at a gun show. A required background check can’t be avoided by making the purchase at a gun show. There is no “gun show loophole.”
In general, private party sales don’t require background checks, regardless of where they happen (a few states have mandated that private sales DO require background checks, but that isn’t federal law). In contrast, a purchase from a dealer requires a background check, regardless of where it happens. If you actually understand that, great. But if you don’t, you are simply wrong.
I have no issue with laws that you posted, just your interpretation.
Again, this is what you said:
The above sentence means that background checks are not required at gun shows when a purchase is made from other than a private individual. That may not be what you intended to say, but that’s what the words mean.
There is no state where you can purchase a firearm at a gun show from a dealer, and not go through a background check (or have a concealed carry permit in a state that has that exemption).
Again, there is NO difference in firearms laws that govern sales at gun shows versus any other locations. If you believe otherwise, you are simply wrong.
Apparently, there are also unlicensed vendors at gun shows though, so you can buy a gun there without a background check. I never left out the part about licensed vs unlicensed dealers. The law I quoted says you can buy a gun at a gun show without a background check as long as the person's primary income isn't from selling guns.
What difference does it make to the person you shoot if you bought it from a licensed or unlicensed dealer? the point remains that if you know you can't pass a background check, you can still go to a gun show and probably leave with a gun.
And you are making the same mistake with the language as ocnjgirl. The language that the two of you have used makes it impossible to determine if you in fact understand the issue.
This is very simple. If a sale is subject to a background check, the check must be done, whether the sale happens away from a gun show, or at a gun show. A required background check can’t be avoided by making the purchase at a gun show. There is no “gun show loophole.”
In general, private party sales don’t require background checks, regardless of where they happen (a few states have mandated that private sales DO require background checks, but that isn’t federal law). In contrast, a purchase from a dealer requires a background check, regardless of where it happens. If you actually understand that, great. But if you don’t, you are simply wrong.
Just FYI, I never used the term gun show loophole. I simply quoted the law from a couple of states.
So, back to my original question: what can/should family or friends do when a person possesses a deadly weapon and has obvious mental illness?
I don't think there is anything they can do, short of sneaking in and stealing the weapon. But unless the person is a danger in that moment, there is no authority who will come take the gun no matter who you call.
Apparently, there are also unlicensed vendors at gun shows though, so you can buy a gun there without a background check. I never left out the part about licensed vs unlicensed dealers. The law I quoted says you can buy a gun at a gun show without a background check as long as the person's primary income isn't from selling guns.
What difference does it make to the person you shoot if you bought it from a licensed or unlicensed dealer? the point remains that if you know you can't pass a background check, you can still go to a gun show and probably leave with a gun.
I’m sorry your language error is lost on you. If you translate the referenced sentence into a Venn diagram, it would make it clear to you (assuming you’re able to to do that, and properly translate it).
Given that the laws aren’t any different at gun shows than anywhere else, the continued attempt to paint gun shows as some free for all arms bazaar for felons is quite tiresome. You have an anti gun agenda. Everyone gets it. But you should at least try to exercise some integrity in your rhetoric.
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