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I wonder if you know anybody like this. I've known this guy for many years and I've come to realize that he spends a lot of mental energy trying to justify things, typically using incredibly flimsy reasoning. Sometimes it can be exhausting listening to a more level-headed person try to explain why a thing is unreasonable and this guy comes back with really lame explanations of why it makes sense. He might even agree with the level-headed answer first, and then still try to explain it his way.
Here are a couple of made-up examples loosely based on real life.
This guy might complain that a course he signed up (and paid) for was so hard that after weeks of it totally driving him crazy he dropped out. If you were to suggest that it sounded like a waste of time and money, he might say, "Not really. I did learn (insert random factoid that you or I could learn in five minutes on YouTube or Wikipedia.)"
Or, you might complain to him that you found out your boss makes ten times your salary and how crazy that is. His response might include some form of, "Well, he probably puts in more hours and has more responsibility..."
I just wonder about the psychology behind this. I personally would be embarrassed to have other people know I thought this way. I'm as curious as the next guy as to why things happen, but I'm also aware enough to know that not every decision I make is the smartest and that many things that go on in this world are simply irrational.
I wonder if you know anybody like this. I've known this guy for many years and I've come to realize that he spends a lot of mental energy trying to justify things, typically using incredibly flimsy reasoning. Sometimes it can be exhausting listening to a more level-headed person try to explain why a thing is unreasonable and this guy comes back with really lame explanations of why it makes sense. He might even agree with the level-headed answer first, and then still try to explain it his way.
Here are a couple of made-up examples loosely based on real life.
This guy might complain that a course he signed up (and paid) for was so hard that after weeks of it totally driving him crazy he dropped out. If you were to suggest that it sounded like a waste of time and money, he might say, "Not really. I did learn (insert random factoid that you or I could learn in five minutes on YouTube or Wikipedia.)"
Or, you might complain to him that you found out your boss makes ten times your salary and how crazy that is. His response might include some form of, "Well, he probably puts in more hours and has more responsibility..."
I just wonder about the psychology behind this. I personally would be embarrassed to have other people know I thought this way. I'm as curious as the next guy as to why things happen, but I'm also aware enough to know that not every decision I make is the smartest and that many things that go on in this world are simply irrational.
Thoughts?
That bolded sentence is just hilarious.
What is the thought process behind this? Perhaps this is how he thinks people talk to each other, just a way to socialize with others.
I find that there are people who try to find ways to agree with you (even when they mostly don't) and other people try to be disagreeable (even when they do mostly agree with you).
So some try to find the common ground with you...and this is what I try to do, especially with people like at work or acquaintances. It's not hugely important who's "right" or "wrong" in these instances and there may not even be a right or wrong so I try to find a way to at least be neutral.
Now, the people I really don't get along with will bring up a topic, maybe a bit controversial like "Such and such has really been taking a lot of time off lately and might get in trouble"...so I might say, yeah, I've noticed he's taken a few days off....". Then the person will turn around and say "He's perfectly entitled to do whatever he needs to do!" when their prior tone was very negative toward the person. I feel in those situations I've been led down a path I don't even really care about only to have them do a 180 degree turn on me. Those people I try to avoid because whatever you say will turn into an argument.
So this is a bit similar to your example but with a different reasoning behind the behavior of disagreeing.
Or, you might complain to him that you found out your boss makes ten times your salary and how crazy that is. His response might include some form of, "Well, he probably puts in more hours and has more responsibility..."
To me, this kind of thing just reflects an attempt to maintain a simplified world view to avoid having to change their thinking in any way. Most people live by superficial, often in important ways fact free, ideologies, mental shortcuts and half-formed beliefs.
This particular example might be a person who would rather justify a boss' salary to avoid having to engage with the knock-on impactions of its unfairness, the corruption of the system that allows it, any anger or resentment or impulse to act on this realization in some way, the need to re-evaluate childhood training that authorities can / must always be trusted, disappointment because they had already decided that the boss is a nice guy, etc. Could be any or all of those things, and more.
Most people, most of the time, are unwilling to change their beliefs or snap judgments or lifelong assumptions even when confronted with compelling information and ironclad supporting evidence that they were previously unaware of. So they will argue from every possible angle to preserve their existing beliefs and their ego investment in them.
The first thing that came to mind mind reading the OP is perhaps he's just pointing out another way to look at the situation, or additional factors to consider.
That is not justifying.
Sure he might have said: the course he signed up (and paid) for was so hard that after weeks of it totally driving him crazy he dropped out.....BUT that doesn't mean HE saw it as the waste of time you suggested. The course was hard, but that doesn't mean he didn't learn something. HE didn't say it was a waste of time. YOU jumped to that opinion.
YOU might complain to him that you found out your boss makes ten times your salary and how crazy that is. HE's pointing out that the boss may indeed put in more hours and have more responsibility..." He's just positing out another way to see the issue. Sure you may be upset that your boss makes so much more than you. But your friend was just pointing out there's likely a reason for that. A reason you might not care about. But one you could at least concede exists.
Again, that's not justifying.
Some people just tend to see all sides to a situation or different ways of looking at issues, before they have an opinion about them.....especially an ill-informed opinion.
If you're wondering why some people do that, I think those are people who are just more studied and analytical in their thought process.
I was raised by parents who always asked, "but did you think of this?" -- "have you thought about that?" ....educate yourself before declaring an opinion.... (and possibly put your foot in your mouth, or appear ignorant of the topic at hand.)
I think he is simply offering his point of view. You told him that that course sounded a waste of money(which is YOUR OPINION) and he didn't feel like it was. He took the course and even though he may have dropped out he may have learned something from it(even if that something is that he doesn't like that kind of course enough to commit to it).
That he learned a random factoid you can learn on YouTube although on one hand funny, is an expression that undermines what he told you. What is really interesting to me is that you keep hanging out with this person if you (seemingly) don't value their opinion. Some things you just have to accept. Not every behaviour must make sense to you, because you haven't lived the life that that person has lived.
What is the psychology behind that?
Maybe the same psychology behind failing and telling people
and yourself that it wasn't that bad. Haven't you EVER done something similar?
And if this is something you don't understand, how come you don't express it to him in a neutral way like "sometimes you rush to justify things and I personally don't understand why you do it." With concrete examples.
The first thing that came to mind mind reading the OP is perhaps he's just pointing out another way to look at the situation, or additional factors to consider.
That is not justifying.
Sure he might have said: the course he signed up (and paid) for was so hard that after weeks of it totally driving him crazy he dropped out.....BUT that doesn't mean HE saw it as the waste of time you suggested. The course was hard, but that doesn't mean he didn't learn something. HE didn't say it was a waste of time. YOU jumped to that opinion.
YOU might complain to him that you found out your boss makes ten times your salary and how crazy that is. HE's pointing out that the boss may indeed put in more hours and have more responsibility..." He's just positing out another way to see the issue. Sure you may be upset that your boss makes so much more than you. But your friend was just pointing out there's likely a reason for that. A reason you might not care about. But one you could at least concede exists.
Again, that's not justifying.
Some people just tend to see all sides to a situation or different ways of looking at issues, before they have an opinion about them.....especially an ill-informed opinion.
If you're wondering why some people do that, I think those are people who are just more studied and analytical in their thought process.
I was raised by parents who always asked, "but did you think of this?" -- "have you thought about that?" ....educate yourself before declaring an opinion.... (and possibly put your foot in your mouth, or appear ignorant of the topic at hand.)
Offering various viewpoints is indeed vastly different than someone who makes up all sorts of excuses to justify their choices or actions.
The first thing that came to mind mind reading the OP is perhaps he's just pointing out another way to look at the situation, or additional factors to consider.
That is not justifying.
I understand what you're saying. And I'm all for a person offering other viewpoints on a topic. I just feel like this particular person tries way too hard to make sense of certain situations, particularly where his opinion seems to be in the minority. He will keep doing this even after he admits that the widely-supported viewpoint makes plenty of sense.
Imagine, for example, everyone at your workplace is fuming over a new policy change. Do you really want to be sitting near the one guy who's saying, "Well, they probably had no choice..."?
So, no, it's not "wrong" what he's doing, but it can make the occasional conversation uncomfortable to sit through. (For the record, I don't challenge his views too often, but another mutual acquaintance often will.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Now, the people I really don't get along with will bring up a topic, maybe a bit controversial like "Such and such has really been taking a lot of time off lately and might get in trouble"...so I might say, yeah, I've noticed he's taken a few days off....". Then the person will turn around and say "He's perfectly entitled to do whatever he needs to do!" when their prior tone was very negative toward the person. I feel in those situations I've been led down a path I don't even really care about only to have them do a 180 degree turn on me. Those people I try to avoid because whatever you say will turn into an argument.
I knew a guy like that once too. I cut him out of my life. He would take sides for or against certain people and would talk in "lecture" form about how right and wrong things were depending on how they affected him or those specific people. It was just painful to listen to him. That was far worse than the situation I'm discussing here.
As to the OP's first post, I find it more contrary than justifying. They always need to have the upper hand. Their way of looking at things is the only way. They just have to step in and clarify some statement you've made, like your statement was insufficient. When it keeps happening, you know it's their messed up agenda that keeps them doing this. I don't tolerate it. I had a friend for over 30 years. She got worse and worse like that and I couldn't take it anymore. It's refreshing not to have to deal with that.
I like to find common ground with people. If I can't, I leave the conversation whether it's in person or online. I don't have the time or inclination for arrogant hardheads and negativity.
Doesn't sound like justifying to me either. It sounds like he is attempting to balance a negative with a positive. Of course I wasn't there.
Most of what we do has roots in childhood issues unexamined. I have no clue what his was but let's just say perhaps his parents told him whenever he complained to try to look on the bright side. That could get irritating to someone who is looking for someone to sympathize with him.
I understand justifiers. Usually they are people who expect to be criticized so they start explaining their choices before they are even asked to. I always think, Poor kid's parents must have challenged every choice he ever made.
Or they may be people who are covering up something they know is wrong by putting a good spin on it. Addicts are great justifiers. So are judgers and self-righteous angry people.
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