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Status:
"Peace sells...but who's buying?"
(set 8 days ago)
Location: South of Heaven
8,155 posts, read 3,621,007 times
Reputation: 11943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu
First it was weirdo then creep and now incel. Maybe we need to stop with the name calling as it doesn't help at all.
It is brutal to be a socially awkward male as he can be branded as weird, creep and now incel. Why not help these dudes? (if it so easy to be "normal"?) It is easy to kick someone when they are down or an outcast.
When a fella can't get laid it's not just women who reject them it's all of society. Pressure's on guys, the stakes are even higher than you think!
First it was weirdo then creep and now incel. Maybe we need to stop with the name calling as it doesn't help at all.
It is brutal to be a socially awkward male as he can be branded as weird, creep and now incel. Why not help these dudes? (if it so easy to be "normal"?) It is easy to kick someone when they are down or an outcast.
Interesting that you mention this. I have kinda crusaded against the word, "creepy" as some men I've known have applied it to themselves. In a big social group I was part of for years, there were struggling, socially awkward single men who would show up and seem kind of adrift. I want to talk first about the sweet, nice ones, who were just having a hard time in that area...and one of them once said he felt "creepy." I sat up and told him, "Dude you are NOT creepy. Creepy is someone who is pushing boundaries, you are not pushing boundaries. There is nothing wrong with you being here, you are not pushing anyone's boundaries, and I want you here. I am happy to see you. You belong here as much as I do or anyone does." I made it a point to affirm him and befriend him, because his main issue was a lack of confidence.
Now he knew, because I told him with perfect clarity, that there was nothing sexual or romantic on offer from me, and that behaving as though he hoped for it or thought it was possible, WOULD be pushing a boundary. The boundary was placed and stated with clarity, because this group values clear communication more than most people in American society often do. But I made him feel seen, and like a valuable member of the group, and when others saw my highly sociable self connecting with him, they thought, "Cool, he's alright, if she likes him" and they interacted with him, too. And he did eventually find a love match, in a way he might not have been able to if we had not built him up.
THOSE guys... The right social group can help them.
And I hold to my assertion that "creepy" is not an ugly man or a shy or awkward man. Creepy is a boundary pusher. Some of us might forgive someone who may be failing to see a boundary that is subtle or unspoken, but once we communicate it with clarity, the more somebody pushes that boundary, the creepier they are.
And it ain't just men. A woman who is putting her body into a stranger's personal space in an unwanted way, especially after being told to stop? Creepy! Like the older woman at work who felt a need to get way too close and whisper to me, and I would step back, and she'd practically chase me around the break room...like why are you whispering anyways? I don't need to breathe your breath (this was pre Covid lol)... Some people just seem to not understand normal social boundaries. Creepy is that. A nosy peeping neighbor could be creepy. A staring child can be creepy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz
When a fella can't get laid it's not just women who reject them it's all of society. Pressure's on guys, the stakes are even higher than you think!
Which is why, AGAIN, I will say that "incel" has come to mean so much more than "someone who isn't getting sex." Because if that person did not behave in a boundary pushing way somehow? How would any of us in "society" even KNOW about their lack of sexual history? It's not really the business of "society" if you get laid or not! If you wander around in public shouting about your poor neglected sexyparts, that would be...pretty CREEPY to do! People act like the internet is a private room, but it's not. It's in the realm of "public." The present day incarnation of "incels" is not "some person who struggles to get laid" it's "person who joined a whole club about people who can't get laid and are angry about it and who have turned their grievance into a very public conspiracy theory."
Letting yourself spiral into that...sorry, but it's a choice.
What is your suggestion? What help should be offered?
Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12
This thread hasn't really been about calling people names. Though some suggesting solutions have been harsh, that's pretty understandable given the topic.
I'm curious too. Any ideas Mr. Ryu as to what might help?
It all starts at home. Individuals need to do a deep dive into him/herself and really factor whether or not they are worthy to be a father/mother.
A portion of the whole "creep, weirdo, incel" persona is behavior that was not corrected during the personality development years (1 to 8). 1 to 8 years old are critical years in regards to a child developing a personality that is accepted by his/her peers and adults. If the personality behavior is not fixed or if the wrong personality traits are being copied from immediate family member or peers and/or encourage then the recipe for "creep, weirdo, incel" is being created or made worse. The big responsibility falls with mom and dad and extended family. (as the saying goes it takes a village..")
Social media, broken families, families being more distant, etc are putting fuel to this fire.
In regards to an adult encountering a "creep, weirdo, incel" i would say if you got nothing good to say then say nothing at all.
What am I supposed to do to “help†these dudes? I was nice to a guy at work and he started sending me ultra scary/creepy text messages. The two coworkers I showed them to before I contacted my supervisor were very concerned after they read them. LUCKILY my supervisor was very supportive and dealt with the problem, but I have no duty to help this man.
All you need to be is fair but calling someone names, etc is not helpful at all. The guy crossed a line therefore you did the right thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz
When a fella can't get laid it's not just women who reject them it's all of society. Pressure's on guys, the stakes are even higher than you think!
I agree with your statement. Family member, friends, co-workers, etc might make this person feel like a social pariah.
It all starts at home. Individuals need to do a deep dive into him/herself and really factor whether or not they are worthy to be a father/mother.
Heh. We previously touched on whether people not having enough sex, and reproducing enough, was a possible threat to the species. I would say that if every person who could possibly reproduce, first did a "deep dive" as to whether they were really parent material, the species would die off. 45% of all (known/verified) pregnancies in the US were unplanned/unintended. And I do not expect human nature to shift to such a degree that all or even much more would be planned for and intended, let alone to have people do a self assessment and conclude that they are worthy, let alone for people to be remotely accurate in such a self evaluation.
I mean for real. How many parents, when the child was in the womb, had every belief that they would be good parents...and yet decades later the kid was blaming them for all their problems? Tons.
Quote:
A portion of the whole "creep, weirdo, incel" persona is behavior that was not corrected during the personality development years (1 to 8). 1 to 8 years old are critical years in regards to a child developing a personality that is accepted by his/her peers and adults. If the personality behavior is not fixed or if the wrong personality traits are being copied from immediate family member or peers and/or encourage then the recipe for "creep, weirdo, incel" is being created or made worse. The big responsibility falls with mom and dad and extended family. (as the saying goes it takes a village..")
Social media, broken families, families being more distant, etc are putting fuel to this fire.
In regards to an adult encountering a "creep, weirdo, incel" i would say if you got nothing good to say then say nothing at all.
Furthermore, I've known a number of people who had wonderful loving parents, and every advantage, yet still ended up with issues. Mental health issues (including schizophrenia/schizo-affective, anxiety, depression, autism spectrum, and antisocial personality disorders...you name it) can be genetic or biological more than about how a person was raised, and some of those issues don't even manifest until someone is an adolescent or even an adult. And there can be compounding struggles about someone's appearance or health that are hard to correct, though I don't believe that many people are so hindered by their looks (and nothing else) that it traps them in incel-land.
Even hygiene...I worked hard to teach my sons to have good personal hygiene. One of them has embraced those lessons, and the other has not. Just cannot be bothered. Oddly, the relative slob has a girlfriend. Go figure.
I mean for real. How many parents, when the child was in the womb, had every belief that they would be good parents...and yet decades later the kid was blaming them for all their problems? Tons.
Not good parents but whether they are even ready financially, mentally and emotionally. There is way more in being a parent than just being "good". $$ is an important factor if a strong safety net via extended family is not available.
Furthermore, I've known a number of people who had wonderful loving parents, and every advantage, yet still ended up with issues.
From the outside looking in, you might not be aware of all the issues that are going on inside the home.
Even hygiene...I worked hard to teach my sons to have good personal hygiene. One of them has embraced those lessons, and the other has not. Just cannot be bothered. Oddly, the relative slob has a girlfriend. Go figure.
Maybe dad should teach them about personal hygiene??
I mean for real. How many parents, when the child was in the womb, had every belief that they would be good parents...and yet decades later the kid was blaming them for all their problems? Tons.
Not good parents but whether they are even ready financially, mentally and emotionally. There is way more in being a parent than just being "good". $$ is an important factor if a strong safety net via extended family is not available.
Furthermore, I've known a number of people who had wonderful loving parents, and every advantage, yet still ended up with issues.
From the outside looking in, you might not be aware of all the issues that are going on inside the home.
Even hygiene...I worked hard to teach my sons to have good personal hygiene. One of them has embraced those lessons, and the other has not. Just cannot be bothered. Oddly, the relative slob has a girlfriend. Go figure.
Maybe dad should teach them about personal hygiene??
Dad also did everything he could to teach them these things, we worked as a team to raise them (kinda wondering if you were hoping to "gotcha" me into saying he wasn't around or involved? Sorry, not the case.) Still, the fact is, one took certain lessons to heart and the other not so much. Not that the other one who did not embrace this one took nothing good from his upbringing...they are simply two different people.
As two people will be, even growing up with the same DNA and the same parents and the same upbringing. There will always be a lot of influences and things, far more than any parents will be able to control.
Good or not, the parents are human and imperfect. Learning to accept that and take responsibility for one's own life beyond their childhood is a very important part of growing up.
And likewise if every person prevented conception effectively until/unless they could "afford" children...especially in this economy...the birthrates would be incredibly low and the species would suffer for it. Every change has consequences. Some good, perhaps...some not.
And likewise if every person prevented conception effectively until/unless they could "afford" children...especially in this economy...the birthrates would be incredibly low and the species would suffer for it. Every change has consequences. Some good, perhaps...some not.
Also, the ability to reliably prevent pregnancy until one was "ready" to have children is a very, very relatively recent luxury, and doesn't seem to have any connection with the culture of incels at all at first glance.
Dad also did everything he could to teach them these things, we worked as a team to raise them (kinda wondering if you were hoping to "gotcha" me into saying he wasn't around or involved? Sorry, not the case.)
It should be dad's responsibility to teach his sons how to be men and about their personal hygiene. A mother can help but the main responsibility should fall on dad.
Also, the ability to reliably prevent pregnancy until one was "ready" to have children is a very, very relatively recent luxury, and doesn't seem to have any connection with the culture of incels at all at first glance.
Can you explain the difference of a weirdo, creep and incel? Now we have a culture of incels?
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