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I was the beneficiary of such a strategy outside the US. It did not result in a date. It was slightly different as my friend and I were at beach that was totally empty aside from a group of cute twentysomething guys playing soccer. They slowly moved their game closer to us (the beach was gigantic) and a couple of them came up to us, asked if we wanted to hang out at a bar later. I think we said we didn’t have any plans yet and then they basically ran off the beach. Tbh, we might gone to meet them at a bar, but they didn’t even give us enough information about where they were going for us to show up there. That was not the only time when I experienced the hit on and run, but it was generally unsuccessful.
Re the bolded: My god, that is intrusive and flat-out stalking. Surely you could not have expected any OTHER reaction.
This has absolutely nothing to do with being cursed out for being "shy". This has got to do with not respecting social boundaries and making someone feel unsafe. Dude, FRIGHTENING someone into dating you doesn't work! Surely when you looked at it from HER perspective, you must have realized that.
So calling someone on the phone is stalking? Interesting.
I have never heard of frightening anyone into a date. But yeah that probably wouldn't work. And besides, I wanted this person to like me. So I agree that showing up at her door with an ax and wearing a hockey mask might not make a great first impression.
Oh, dear. This is extremely odd and intrusive behavior. Calling up someone at work and asking them if they're single? Tracking down someone's home number? This is not something you can write off as "I'm shy and women are mean." You crossed a line.
I figured that was the only way to find out if she was single. I sure wasn't going to ask her that in person.
At any rate, I thought that trying to get with someone who was already spoken for would have been crossing a line.
So I wanted to avoid that.
Retail employees are pretty constrained in their work environment, which can lead to them feeling vulnerable . They are required to be there, in a public setting, with nowhere to hide, and they must be friendly. Making an advance on somebody in that situation makes you enter a power dynamic that is often unwelcome.
Calling them at work, which requires them to take a personal call on work time, can actually get them into trouble if they have a bad boss, if which there are many in retail.
Cold calling somebody at home who never gave you a number? No, just don’t do that. Get their number through legit means (such as, “hey, can I get your number? I would like to take you out for a drink/coffee sometime”) which allows them to gracefully decline, or even give you a bad number.
Nobody likes to feel trapped, and you maneuvered a couple of people into that exact situation.
I get what you're saying about retail employees. That's why I never wanted to bother them while they were working. I figured that just handing them a note would be more considerate. So if they had any interest at all they could just call me up. And if not then "Oh well! At least I tried."
As for the girl that I called at work, I just left a message for her to call me when she went on break. So she called me back on her cell phone with a few choice words.
Granted, the proper way to do something like this would be for a guy to put on his Chad mask and begin running some game before asking for a girl's number. But since I'm too shy and my name isn't Chad, such a scenario isn't very likely.
Not to mention, his strategy for dating was to walk up to a complete stranger, make no eye contact or conversation, and hand them a note with a phone number.
Very bizarre. I would have been frightened to have this happen to me even if I was with other people.
What made you think these were good ideas OP?
Definitely not good ideas. It was more like desperation due to a lack of options.
The woman I am seeing now works in a service capacity... and no way would I have 'stalked' her online or incessantly called her while at work - or call even one time. And coming out and asking her point-blank if she is married, etc. Strange. Things like that come out during conversations.
Then agaIn, I do not 'grab the wheel' like the majority of males do - I let her handle that and let her 'make the move' on me.
It worked in OUR favor - and much much better for her than what the creeps and pervos prior to me tried to pull on her. And good for me because now I am with a genuinely loving and caring person.
Cuddle monster, sorry, but you totally got it wrong here.
I agree that conversation is usually how most normal people find out if someone is single. But since these girls were working, I couldn't really do that as I didn't feel like it would be proper. Not that I would have been able to strike up a conversation with them to begin. But still.
So calling someone on the phone is stalking? Interesting.
I have never heard of frightening anyone into a date. But yeah that probably wouldn't work. And besides, I wanted this person to like me. So I agree that showing up at her door with an ax and wearing a hockey mask might not make a great first impression.
No, and you know that calling her was not the problem. The problem was that it was intrusive and uninvited. She did not give you her number.
And then there is the main concern being if a woman is spoken for... Which I feel goes beyond just the first hurdle of availability to date. The impression I've got is a much greater focus on not disrespecting some other man's boundaries, while struggling to even realize that a woman might have any at all. The flavor of it is adjacent to the notion that many incel type men have, that they are competing against other men (people, player characters) for the prize of access to women (commodities, NPCs) and no clue that women might not like being dehumanized in this way. Exhibit A: the repeated reference to "Chad" and the supposed game he spits.
Just being able to speak to women like a person talking to another person is not "swagger" or "game."
And I wonder how many times on these forums someone has tried to stand in this position of, "people like me get done dirty and we're completely innocent I tell you" but really... Yeah, there was a reason.
Hell, a man once admitted privately to me that the woman he spent years complaining about for how she treated him so coldly, he'd basically sexually assaulted her at one point...does a man think that a woman is ever going to get over that, or that she should? The complete lack of basic empathy is astounding. This is why I often feel like some men just don't actually comprehend that women are even people. We are not NPCs in a game.
I said before that "creepy" is not an unattractive man or a shy man or even a man who can't get laid. Creepy is the pushing or violation of boundaries. I am far more forgiving, usually, and kind to strangers (as many of the long term posters on the Relationships board can attest, for years I was much more kind to the struggling guys than other people were)...and I am usually willing to give a man the benefit of the doubt that he just somehow did not understand that there was a boundary there. I am usually willing to be totally frank and honest but tactful and diplomatic at the same time, and kindly but firmly say, "I am sorry but see this? This is a boundary. Right here, yeah, this. I need you to stand on the other side of this. Wish you the best. Over there. Thanks." Unfortunately in my experience, too many men take even the attempt at politeness in stating that, as some sort of encouragement, and it's not until I get pretty hostile that they stop trying.
What you did, with those cashiers, that would never have gone well. Never. Not once. That has nothing to do with swagger or game. It simply is not DONE. It makes you look like a stalker, it is a violation of boundaries, and it is creepy behavior. Which, to circle back, was my point about creepiness. It's not about what you are, it's about what you do.
So a shy guy approaching women is considered stalking and creepy behavior? But when Chad is the one doing the approaching it's ok? Who is to say that Chad isn't a serial killer? Just because he is smooth and can run game then he's a "great guy?" Is that how women judge a man's character? No wonder so many women end up dating losers and abusers. On the other hand, the shy guy who is so afraid of women that he can barely maintain eye contact is going to kill them or something? Umm ok?
With that being said, the average shy guy isn't Chad. He doesn't know what to say even if he could get the words out. So he sure isn't going to be smooth and suave about it. But since women usually aren't going to make the first move the shy guy has to try whatever he can and hope that it will be enough. Even if it's not a conventional method. Which is what I did. And of course it wasn't enough. But at least I can say that I tried.
No, and you know that calling her was not the problem. The problem was that it was intrusive and uninvited. She did not give you her number.
I didn't give out my number to all these telemarketers that keep calling me either. Why is that not also intrusive and uninvited?
I guess it could be said that they are just trying to make a sale. Which is what I was doing. Only the product that I was trying to promote was myself.
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