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There's just a little more to it but you have the gist. There is the adherence to a conspiracy type narrative which casts men in categories even when it is not that accurate. Any guy who doesn't struggle to "get" women is a "Chad." It is assumed that he could then have a relationship with any of them he wanted, and the only reason one does not ensue is that he chose to hit it and quit it. (Hence the notion that Chads are jerks, they "use women for sex" in theory...even though in my opinion if two people consent to uncommitted sex, it implies no obligation to continue into a relationship unless that is mutually desired.)
Other men who do not easily get "loads of women" but who appear to be partnered anyways somehow (all of those average looking fellas out in public with women who are anything short of hideous) are "Timothys" and the narrative insists that the women who are with them don't really have passionate feelings for them, settled for them after "riding the carousel" when their own "value" is lower and that said women probably don't give them much sex and just want them for security and stability. It is the only explanation available for the obvious fact that plenty of men who are not obvious lady killers manage to have partners, in incel-land.
That way they get to preserve their grievance state of combined longing and contempt for everyone who is not in precisely the same boat that they are. And claim that anyone who says different (like me, saying I'm very happy with my non-Chad husband, and do have passion for him) is just lying or delusional or something. Fake news!
That's a conspiracy for ya. That's how they work.
And some people, like me, who really enjoy random conversation with strangers, will deliberately "flag" our interests. I have a band patch on my purse that goes everywhere with me and has been the bait for many a chat with strangers. Doing this, along with signaling "open" behavior (not fiddling with my cell phone, or reading with earbuds in, but rather looking around me and engaging with the world)...makes it really easy set the stage for social encounters with like minded people.
Yup, believe or not, there ARE still Cowsills fans out there.
Well, according to what I have 'learned' about this 'Chad' whatever stuff, isn't this exactly what these so-called 'incels' are complaining about?
The 'jerky' guy who is a 'magnet'? Right? Or am I missing something here?
Yes, but no.
Incels seem to complain about “Chad†because he ruins women for them. They hold a double standard where they feel that men such as themselves are free to have sex (if they can get it) but if women have sec with multiple men they are soiled and devalued. At the same time they spend a lot of effort in trying to mimic what they think are attractive traits, because they want to become a Chad. So Chad is an object of envy and loathing at the same time.
There seems to be no such dichotomy in viewing women. They are objects of desire, but also objects of contempt. But objects (ok, NPCs for the geeky crowd. I totally grok it) nonetheless. An incel seems to desire women for the physical aspects of sex, but has contempt for them for wanting sex, not choosing them, choosing other men, not being virginal, being too discriminating, not being discriminating enough, and so on.
At best it is a messy, incoherent, inaccurate way of looking at the world. I really do wish there was a way to help these guys, but I have no idea what that might be.
Yup, believe or not, there ARE still Cowsills fans out there.
JK. (And you may be too young...)
Yeah. I might be. Though I like plenty of music from eras gone by. I recently watched a documentary about Harry Nilsson, because I deeply adore the album, "The Point" and if that ain't old enough, I'm totally wild about Beethoven, too.
Actually I am thinking about ditching the purse, I have kinda lost interest in GWAR (that's the patch) and at this point, I hang onto the memorabilia for the memories, but what the band and its fanbase are today is of less interest to me. We've just grown in different directions, I think. But I don't know, because the value of sporting that patch now is that I have tons of stories attached to my adventures. I used to travel to see them. I wanted to go, every time they toured, to a show in a city I'd never visited, just to have a reason, an activity to anchor me a bit, something to do and people to hang out with. I did that for a few years. All told I saw them live 38 times. So there is MUCH fodder for conversation.
Regarding the video posted on the previous page... Ya know it's part of why even though I find incels to be at times disturbing and often frustrating to talk to (generally on these forums) there will always be a little pity there not necessarily because they can't find love or sex, but more because...that guy got the idea from SOMEWHERE that this strategy would work. He is operating on bad information and a deep lack of understanding of women, at least.
There are numerous threads over in relationships and non-romantic relationships about people who are narcissists and/or manipulative. This thread is not about those people, so people aren’t talking about them.
What we are talking about here is incels. If you are so scared of women that you can’t talk to them or make eye contact, then the appropriate action is to go into therapy to find out WHY this is the case or pursue some other avenue to deal with this issue in a productive way. For example, most cities have Toastmasters, and that provides a way to build public speaking in a non-judgmental environment.
If you are so shy you can’t make eye contact, how do you expect a date to go? One of the main problems with incels (as opposed to people who are just shy) is that they seem to expect the woman to be the one to solve the problem. A woman isn’t going to be responsive to a man calling her at work (that sort of behavior is usually just for emergencies) or finding her phone number and contacting her at home. Assuming a random guy approaches a woman on the street, yes, that is annoying, but that guy probably gets a lot of rejections and the woman can move on with her day later.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about as well. Incels and why they are the way they are. While I'm not technically an incel, I have certainly been one and know that the struggle is real.
While therapy might be beneficial to some, it was absolutely useless in my case. Which is not surprising as trying to change who a person really is rarely works. Perhaps if I could have been prescribed the right medications I could have been turned into the loud obnoxious Chad that all the young ladies dream about. But who knows. I just know that what they gave me didn't really do anything other than make me feel even worse.
As far as making eye contact, I'm a lot better at it now. But I really have to focus and make myself do it. Although the problem is that it takes so much effort that I can't focus on what the person is saying.
With that being said, it's not so bad when I get to know someone. It's mostly with strangers.
It IS exactly that. How do you feel about them? As if they are interested in you because of who you are or because they want to get something from you?
While I do find telemarketers annoying, I try to keep in mind that they are just doing a job and may not like it themselves. It's the same with guys trying to meet a single lady. It's the man's job to put himself out there and take the risks. Which is not fun at all. That's why shy guys would rather that women did the approaching so they won't have to.
As for the motivation of telemarketers and lonely guys, they all want something in the end. The telemarketer wants to make a sale and the lonely guy just wants someone to love.
There are a couple of ways to find out if a woman is single, although in deference to Spork's points, it might be better to say find out if she is interested, even if not exactly single by some definition.
One is through conversation. If the conversation gets a bit flirty (that is a topic for a different post), and one party is not interested, they will mention a spouse/partner/gf/bf. That means back off. If they do not mention somebody in their life, they are potentially interested, at least to the level that you can continue the conversation and maybe ask her out.
The other way is to simply ask a person out. Hi, want to grab lunch? If they say yes, you know that they are potentially interested. It might simply be lunch, it might lead to more, but leave it up to the woman to decide if she is going to say yes.
If a woman is attached in some way, she will simply decline your invite. Let her do that.
Here is a hint. Step away from the incel forums and communities. Your constant references to "Chad" and "game" are giveaways. Those places are toxic, and are not going to help you. They will drag you deeper into the mire of resentment. Instead, go to therapy. Join a group that is accepting of fringe people and make some friends. They are out there.
You are 100% correct in what you're saying. But it's not really practical for shy guys. While I haven't approached a woman in almost 20 years, I can't really say if I would be any more successful now than I would have back in my blue pill days. It's not so much about untucking my tail from between my legs and finding the nads to talk to a woman. I might could do that after psyching myself into it. But once I tried to speak, nothing would come out.
Which is why approaching women in person will never work for some guys and they have to try alternative methods.
Nothing you say here is related to anything that I said. If anything, this illustrates the incel-mentality which is to double down, cling to the conspiracy, and stay stuck.
I specifically said that behavior is the issue. And yours was uncalled-for and as everyone here is telling you, was never going to succeed. You mentioned telemarketers...most people don't even answer those calls if they can help it. A lot of telemarketers are now in fact scammers. Do you not comprehend that advertising is 99% annoying and immediately rejected and dismissed by literally everyone? Do YOU love solicitors, telemarketers, commercials and salespeople, or do you see them as an irritating momentary distraction from whatever you are trying to do?
Besides which all of this shows the how/why of you seeing this in utterly the wrong way. The product is not the man, in a woman's eyes. That's why TONS of men who don't look like "Chad" get laid. The "product" is the companionship of a human being. In order to know if we would be interested in partaking, we need that first free sample to be of interest. It's not like she's (single) in the market for a used car and willing to buy whatever works on the lot...
It isn't "game" because talking to a woman like a person talking to another person is showing her what it might be like to interact, and romantic connections involve a lot of that. Did you not know? People in relationships need to be able to speak to one another. If a woman wanted to "buy a product" as in a static individual who cannot interact with her, she'd just get a realistic doll...or a toy. And if your confusion is a matter of projection because all you crave is a body to...cuddle...with... rather than a whole human to interact with... Maybe you should start saving up for such a substitute.
Or else what we are seeing here is another common thing you get with incels online. Which is that just like adherents of other conspiracies, they really like to bog other posters down in weird irrelevant details and arguing semantics and twisting other people's words, as a form of baiting/trolling. Just capturing someone else's attention enough to pull an argument out of them. Or so it seems, because you sure don't seem to be here to get actual clarity or to consider changing your behavior.
I'm a woman. And I do not feel that I present some huge challenge for men to have to "approach" but that whole terminology is bonkers. Go to social activities and interact like a person among people. I for one am more than willing to chat with just about anybody who seems friendly. In times where I was available, this resulted in plenty of romantic/sexual connections. But all this "Chad" talk...man, all I can think of is Freddy from Scooby Doo, OK? Seriously. Chad wears an ascot and those are not fashionable. He sounds like a country club d-bag. And no, you don't need to 'splain to me what YOU think "Chad" is. I know, and I don't care. It's just not a thing. Of the options I had the last time I was available, I selected the man who made less than half the money I did, is a 5'8" stocky older man and he just taught me how to play Magic: The Gathering because we're both a couple of happy nerdy people.
There was ONE area where he shone brighter than all the rest. His companionship, energy and conversation all made me feel happy and good. It was not "game." Unless by that you mean that he did not treat me like some kind of game animal, but like an actual person.
And I think I speak for most women when I say that no, I'm not very interested in going on a date with someone who is so terrified of me that he cannot speak a word. Especially if he's otherwise perfectly content to go digging around online to try and find my personal information to attempt to contact me without my consent. That, to me, sounds like a guy who would be far more comfortable alone with a woman if she wasn't conscious. How are you going to even go on a date with a woman if you can't speak to her face to face? It doesn't compute.
What you're saying just proves the point that shy guys are considered "creepy" and "stalkers." They have difficulty approaching woman so they are low down scum while any guy able to speak to a woman without difficulty is a great guy despite the fact that he could have a bunch of hookers burred under his house. Got it.
I totally get trying to "talk to a woman like she was a person." That's what I have always done. In each instance I was just trying to establish a friendship and made no mention of bumping uglies like frisky bunnies. LOL!
But just out of curiosity, why would a guy calling you on the phone be so much worse than talking to you in person? He would still be a stranger that you knew almost nothing about other than what he looked like. So basically it comes down to looks?
In any case, I have never felt good approaching a strange woman at all. Either on the phone or in person. But especially in person as I did feel like I was violating her in some way. But if I wanted to meet someone, there was no other alternative as this was over 20 years ago and I didn't have internet at the time. So these fubar dating sites and apps that they have now didn't exist at the time. While I did use things like personal ads and such, the problem was that almost none of the respondents were within driving range. Which was a huge problem as my job didn't allow enough days off to travel several states away to meet someone. Thus the need to find someone closer.
But let your heart not be troubled. I no longer stalk and creep on helpless females. I decided to go MGTOW back in 2013 and my love life has never been better.
It's really simple - women want all things from one man - men want one thing from all women.
Basic incompatibility.
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