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That was indeed a pretty in-depth article and did a great job of touching on the issues that both men and women encounter online. The main thing that I question is the man to woman ratio. It definitely varies by platform but as to the actual numbers, I remember reading that some of these sites had as many as 10-15 men to each woman while some others had as little as 3-1.
In any case, those aren't good odds as the women will always have a better choice. Or at least THINK there is always something better just waiting for them. Which is why I think so many women online don't want to take the time to get to know any one guy. It's like that kid in the candy store mentality with so many choices. Or a fear of missing out on something better.
Also, I wonder if the study is counting real people or just profiles because a lot of these women's profiles are fake. I used to joke that if it wasn't for the scammers and spammers I would have hardly received any messages at all.
As for the fake profiles, a lot of them are made up by the dating sites themselves to make it look like there is a more even male to female ratio. I know that Match.com got in trouble for this a few years ago.
But I'm pretty sure they weren't the only one.
Most women don't get a lot of matches online. In the very beginning, you get inundated with men writing, but that's only because you're new there, and most of the guys writing are guys who have been on the site a long time. A lot of the guys are writing and saying sexual things and aren't actual dating prospects After the initial frenzy, I didn't have a lot of options at all.
In terms of getting to know one guy, I was willing to meet just about every guy within 30-60 of my house, but after the first year or 2 I stopped "getting to know" people online, via e-mail or phone, etc. Because you're not really getting to know the person, and only meeting face to face will tell you if there's anything there. I expected to meet within a couple of e-mails and a phone call, and if guy didn't want to do that but just wanted to tell me his life story online, I was out of there. I can't tell you how many guys wrote "I would love to meet you" and I'd see they're close by, sound "normal" in their profile, and I'd say, "ok great, do you want to meet for coffee or a drink next Friday?" and I'd never hear from them again.
The longest relationship I ever had from online was a guy 15 minutes away who wrote and asked me in the initial e-mail if I wanted to meet. I said ok, he gave me his number, we had a 5-minute phone call and met to have drinks and watch the Eagles game. To me the site is there to provide introduction to meet in real life, but a lot of guys seem to want to make absolutely 100% sure they'd like me before they'd meet, i.e. "Do you have more pictures you can send me?" Just get past your fear, take a chance and meet IRL. Worst case scenario is you have to tell them there's no chemistry at the end of the night.
Oh I agree that begging and pleading isn't a good idea. Unfortunately when a guy gets desperate he will try almost anything. But sadly that desperation only serves to make him even less desirable in the eyes of women. It's also sad for the woman because desperation doesn't make a guy a bad guy.
But on the flip side confidence wouldn't necessarily make a guy a good partner because that confidence could be the result of him bedding lots of women or simply having no emotional investment towards the woman. Which means that she is more likely to get used and discarded. It's just too bad that women don't put more thought into this sort of thing.
I also agree with everything else you said here as it certainly mirrors everything that I have either experienced or observed. I really wish it wasn't the case though. Love and romance are wonderful things and it's so sad that they are held in such contempt by today's woman.
It's really not about thought, it's biology. Begging/pleading makes the woman dominant, and she can't feel "safe". It seems like weakness. I dated a couple of guys who were overly needy, and I found they couldn't/didn't want to take charge of anything. "Where do you want to have dinner?" "Anywhere you want to go". "What do you want to do tonight?" "Whatever you want to do". It's exhausting, by continually saying that and refusing to make a decision for himself, he put all the responsibility of planning every date on me. It's hard to feel you're being courted and taken care of when you have to be the dominant force and decision-maker all the time.
If there's a tornado, or wildfire, or a burglar, and I turn to a guy in a panic and say "what should we do?" the last thing I want to hear is "IDK, what do you think we should do?" My heart would sink then and there. I want a man who will at least be willing to come up with a plan to protect us. This does NOT mean macho man. So many people think it's one or the other, when most people are not one or the other at all.
My fiance is shy and sweet and doting, but if we were hiking and a bear appeared, I would feel like he would know what to do, and that makes me feel safe. Men set the stage for giving a women that safe feeling or not, very early in the dating process. It doesn't take a macho exterior. One date where I felt that instantly was when I was on a date with a new guy in Atlantic City. We were crossing a 4 lane road at night and it was very busy. As we were getting ready to cross looking for opportunity, he suddenly took my hand firmly and led me across. I felt swoony instantly from that, because it made me feel safe and protected. That is why confidence is attractive and lack of confidence isn't. Biology.
I’m sorry but lack of confidence/ shyness aren’t masculine traits it’s not attractive to ladies.
It is and should be more acceptable when we have those traits then Men.
Men are supposed to be the rock in the relationship who contrast our weaknesses like self esteem issues.
While I can get on board with a certain amount of Dom/sub playacting by anyone who is so inclined, when it comes to real self esteem issues and expecting to be able to be weak to your partner's strong all the time...like, legitimately?... I don't think that's a recipe for a healthy relationship going in either direction. I just don't.
It seems to me like the kind of thing that leads a lot of women to make bad decisions in relationship choices.
Ideally, two people are able to compliment one another's strengths and weaknesses, but neither of them is so low on self esteem that they need their partner to GIVE them a sense of self worth. I've never seen it work, either. Such people tend to be very draining, because they are trying to fill a need with somebody else's energy that you can truly only fill with your own. If you can't have any self esteem for yourself, nobody can give it to you in any way that will make it real.
And that is coming from a "Words of Affirmation" gal who does appreciate hearing from a partner the reasons and ways in which I am loved. But it's not because I'm a weak little fainting flower and need him to be my rock. The validation goes both ways. He knows how happy I am about being with him, because I often tell him, and I just like to hear it, too.
All role play aside, at the heart of matters a healthy relationship should be a matter between fundamental equals. When it's not, bad things often result.
Ideally, two people are able to compliment one another's strengths and weaknesses, but neither of them is so low on self esteem that they need their partner to GIVE them a sense of self worth. I've never seen it work, either. Such people tend to be very draining, because they are trying to fill a need with somebody else's energy that you can truly only fill with your own. If you can't have any self esteem for yourself, nobody can give it to you in any way that will make it real.
So very true. Every one of us has our own issues, strengths and weaknesses, and it's up to us to manage ourselves, not expect anyone else to do it for us.
That's what stands out to me with the incel mentality. They don't appears to want to change, they expect others to fulfill all of their needs/wants/wishes, take take take, have nothing to offer, and no interest to offer, anything in return. It's only about what they can get, while simultaneously lacking in interest in the other person as a separate being with their own life, needs/wants/wishes. The mindset strikes me as entirely selfish, needy and most of all lazy.
I think in the case of cuddle monster, the issue is not just a lack of confidence, but the fact that he cannot look anyone in the eye and have a conversation without resorting to scribbled notes. That's kind of a Rain Man level of social awkwardness and I'm not sure how anyone could get past that barrier far enough to even form a friendship, much less a romantic relationship with him.
Where were his parents growing up? This disability should have been addressed aggressively in childhood. I never understand this kind of ignorant parenting...but for some reason the parents of guys like this always seem to get a pass.
I think in the case of cuddle monster, the issue is not just a lack of confidence, but the fact that he cannot look anyone in the eye and have a conversation without resorting to scribbled notes. That's kind of a Rain Man level of social awkwardness and I'm not sure how anyone could get past that barrier far enough to even form a friendship, much less a romantic relationship with him.
Where were his parents growing up? This disability should have been addressed aggressively in childhood. I never understand this kind of ignorant parenting...but for some reason the parents of guys like this always seem to get a pass.
Just...one thing... I have a son who does not have issues that are precisely LIKE this but in his own way, they're just as severe. The problem was, they are not always like that from birth or childhood. Some mental illness manifests later on. My kid was outgoing, friendly, he was like the family ambassador. We had no idea he had this schizo-affective stuff until he'd already dropped out of high school and was late teens/early adulthood. And if you were to Google, you'd find that's pretty common for schizo-spectrum issues.
It makes him this kind of socially awkward and socially anxious sometimes because of the paranoia/delusions part. He seriously believes that he's being observed and judged by everyone, all the time. Delusions of persecution. He is not so crazy that he's constantly like disheveled and spouting nonsense, especially if he's on his meds, but there's some stuff going on in there that makes it hard for him to relate to other people for sure, and also more prone to falling into conspiracy beliefs.
I'm not suggesting that cuddle monster or anyone here has something like this. I just want to point out that not all mental illness can even be spotted, or has manifested itself, in childhood at all. There are a few conditions where a perfectly functional kid suddenly becomes a completely different person.
Just...one thing... I have a son who does not have issues that are precisely LIKE this but in his own way, they're just as severe. The problem was, they are not always like that from birth or childhood. Some mental illness manifests later on. My kid was outgoing, friendly, he was like the family ambassador. We had no idea he had this schizo-affective stuff until he'd already dropped out of high school and was late teens/early adulthood. And if you were to Google, you'd find that's pretty common for schizo-spectrum issues.
It makes him this kind of socially awkward and socially anxious sometimes because of the paranoia/delusions part. He seriously believes that he's being observed and judged by everyone, all the time. Delusions of persecution. He is not so crazy that he's constantly like disheveled and spouting nonsense, especially if he's on his meds, but there's some stuff going on in there that makes it hard for him to relate to other people for sure, and also more prone to falling into conspiracy beliefs.
I'm not suggesting that cuddle monster or anyone here has something like this. I just want to point out that not all mental illness can even be spotted, or has manifested itself, in childhood at all. There are a few conditions where a perfectly functional kid suddenly becomes a completely different person.
Even if Cuddle does have ASD, his posts suggest that he is probably in his 40s. There were no early interventions for kids with autism in the ‘80s- at least not as we know them today. Insurance really didn’t start to cover autism treatments until the last decade or so when they finally moved away from considering them to be “experimental” treatments. Also, I don’t think it was until the DSM-5 came out in 2013 that treatment was expanded to a broader array of folks. Before it was just like some people had a developmental delay and that was it… since it wasn’t ASD, the interventions weren’t really offered.
Even if Cuddle does have ASD, his posts suggest that he is probably in his 40s. There were no early interventions for kids with autism in the ‘80s- at least not as we know them today. Insurance really didn’t start to cover autism treatments until the last decade or so when they finally moved away from considering them to be “experimental” treatments. Also, I don’t think it was until the DSM-5 came out in 2013 that treatment was expanded to a broader array of folks. Before it was just like some people had a developmental delay and that was it… since it wasn’t ASD, the interventions weren’t really offered.
Are you saying this is a 40+ year old man passing notes to strange women? And finding out their phone numbers and cold calling them? No wonder these women freaked out. They were scared.
What on earth? I was sure this was a young Gen Z guy who had no life experience.
Even if Cuddle does have ASD, his posts suggest that he is probably in his 40s. There were no early interventions for kids with autism in the ‘80s- at least not as we know them today. Insurance really didn’t start to cover autism treatments until the last decade or so when they finally moved away from considering them to be “experimental” treatments. Also, I don’t think it was until the DSM-5 came out in 2013 that treatment was expanded to a broader array of folks. Before it was just like some people had a developmental delay and that was it… since it wasn’t ASD, the interventions weren’t really offered.
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa
Are you saying this is a 40+ year old man passing notes to strange women? And finding out their phone numbers and cold calling them? No wonder these women freaked out. They were scared.
What on earth? I was sure this was a young Gen Z guy who had no life experience.
For whatever it's worth (not much) I think he was talking about things he did years ago, maybe even decades ago. He has since "gone his own way" and has said he's not trying any of this sort of thing anymore.
For whatever it's worth (not much) I think he was talking about things he did years ago, maybe even decades ago. He has since "gone his own way" and has said he's not trying any of this sort of thing anymore.
What is extremely strange also is that in another thread he claimed to have had a girlfriend at some point, and in this one is is a lifelong incel. Is delusional thinking part of the mix I wonder?
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