Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Do you really think most, or even a significant portion, of relationships start while waiting in the doctors office or on a bus? There are some places most people like to be left alone, there are other places where people are interested in meeting others.
Also, if somebody is on their phone, that is a good sign that they are not interested in talking. You should consider the phone to be an aid in understanding what others want.
I think airplanes are a great example of this. Nobody really wants to have to engage in conversation for 1-6 hours with a stranger sitting next to them. Reading a book/phone is a great defense. Nonetheless, it is polite to great a person sitting next to you, and if both are interested this can lead to a conversation.
Of course cell phones have changed the way we interact. But that merely means we approach people just a bit differently.
I have no idea how most relationships start. I wish I knew. But my point was that it shouldn't matter how or where it starts as long as both parties are open to it.
I was just using a doctor's office as an example of how people COULD meet. Obviously if a women is preoccupied with her phone, magazine or whatever, most guys with any self awareness at all will leave her alone. I was just saying that she could be missing an opportunity if she were single and looking.
Then again being preoccupied with a phone or anything else doesn't necessarily mean that she wouldn't be interested in being approached by the right guy, meaning someone in whom she would be interested. It could simply mean that she had been there for several hours and was tired of looking at the four walls in the room.
But still, I think most guys would be wise not to approach. Or at least until she puts down the phone or magazine.
Also, in a place where it would be acceptable to approach a woman, such as a bar or club, she still not be open to being approached. She could simply be there just because her friends dragged her there "just to get her out of the house."
So this is why a lot of guys don't approach at all anymore and only try to meet woman online. At least if a woman has a profile on a dating site it would be safe if she is single and looking.
Looking back at the thread title, I will make an observation that has probably been mentioned by others previously.
It isn’t sex that needs to be demystified. I think everybody understands the general concept of sex. Rather the problem seems to be communication. How does a person approach someone they are interested in.
That is indeed the $64,000 question. I know that I would be completely clueless.
I have no idea how most relationships start. I wish I knew. But my point was that it shouldn't matter how or where it starts as long as both parties are open to it.
I was just using a doctor's office as an example of how people COULD meet. Obviously if a women is preoccupied with her phone, magazine or whatever, most guys with any self awareness at all will leave her alone. I was just saying that she could be missing an opportunity if she were single and looking.
Then again being preoccupied with a phone or anything else doesn't necessarily mean that she wouldn't be interested in being approached by the right guy, meaning someone in whom she would be interested. It could simply mean that she had been there for several hours and was tired of looking at the four walls in the room.
But still, I think most guys would be wise not to approach. Or at least until she puts down the phone or magazine.
Also, in a place where it would be acceptable to approach a woman, such as a bar or club, she still not be open to being approached. She could simply be there just because her friends dragged her there "just to get her out of the house."
So this is why a lot of guys don't approach at all anymore and only try to meet woman online. At least if a woman has a profile on a dating site it would be safe if she is single and looking.
For what it’s worth, I for one was open to being approached anywhere. Meeting someone was important to me, I hated not having someone and would not have held the “I don’t want to be approached” attitude. I once went to dinner with a guy who approached me at a supermarket salad bar and said “How about going to dinner with me instead of getting that salad”. We talked a few minutes, he seemed nice, and we lived in walkable area where I felt safe walking to a local cafe with him.
One thing that I think sets people like me apart from people who struggle, and I totally admit several aspects of "privilege" (it's the best word for it, sorry if it upsets anyone) that affect this...
I don't "approach someone I am interested in."
I try to "approach" or rather, spark up a bit of chitchat, with anyone around me that I notice who appears available for it. With not a thought as to whether I am "interested" in them. No agenda. And sometimes they are down for it, and sometimes they are not. If not, I abort the attempt. Back off, withdraw my attention and move along. No big deal. If so, we talk, if the talking is good, we can keep talking, if that is good, one of us might suggest another opportunity to talk again, if that is good, continue... Until it becomes a possibility for sex or more.
Now that's not normally going to get that far in line at Petco. Or at a doctor's office. But that part is about putting myself into social situations, so I use the internet to find where the people are gathering and I go put myself there, and just do my thing and try to have a good time.
My method was more throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing if anything sticks, but the thing about having no agenda, is I had no investment in any particular outcome other than hopefully amusing myself by interacting with another human being for a bit. I wasn't letting it crush me if someone doesn't want to talk. I wasn't building up courage to talk to this person who might be my ticket to happiness eternal in my mind. Low stakes, low risk. And I know that it's much more comfortable for other people when there is no agenda present, too. If they can pick up on that, and if they are as sociable as I am in that moment. Often they are not, especially out in public, and I've gotta be OK with that. I am one who would love to have a several hours long conversation with an interesting person on an airplane, but it's only worked out once when I lucked out and was sitting by a man who was as gregarious as I.
The privilege factor:
1. I'm an extrovert. I actually like people, want to hear their stories, have a stock of stories to tell, and enjoy interacting. It doesn't scare me or drain me. I wasn't always this way, I was a very quiet and awkward child who had no friends...but somewhere in my teen years I shifted. It all began when I rather forcefully decided that I didn't care what other people thought of me and I was going to live to make myself happy instead.
2. I'm a woman and I am small and white. Now I'm not describing my appearance to say, "I'm attractive and men want to sleep with me"... that isn't the point at all, and not all of them do at all. I'm saying that because there is exactly nothing about me that comes off as possibly threatening to anybody. I do have a lot of sympathy for the few men I have spoken to whose biggest worry is that they will make a woman feel unsafe, because by no fault of their own, they were born into a big frame and a male body and none of us can know if they pose a threat or are just trying to be friendly to us. I can imagine how painful that's got to be at times.
Shorter version, you are interested in talking to people. Sometimes they are interested in talking to you. Occasionally a social relationship of some sort develops, and this may lead to sex.
This describes every single sexual encounter I have ever had.
If only incels could spend some time doing that rather than talking about their weird social conspiracy theories.
I have no idea how most relationships start. I wish I knew. But my point was that it shouldn't matter how or where it starts as long as both parties are open to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddle monster
That is indeed the $64,000 question. I know that I would be completely clueless.
By talking to people. Read Sonic Spork's post a few items back.
I think you are putting way to much emphasis on "game". Give up on the option of meeting a woman and having sex with her 3 hours later. Sure, it has happened, some people are good at that.
Instead, talk to somebody with no expectations. Talk about work, talk about a hobby, tell an amusing story. Talk to men, talk to women, talk to people in mixed groups, talk to older people, talk to younger people. Talk to married people, single people etc. Talk to people on airplanes if they are interested.
99% of these conversations will not lead to sex or relationships. Some conversations will be boring and others will be interesting. You may meet somebody who was a roadie for your favorite band, a person who had to flee their original country and start over in the USA, or a guy who is a professional cabinetmaker for yachts. These are all real examples in my case. The roadie had some great stories, the refugee was an artist and the friendship may have turned sexual except I was monogamously married, and the yacht carpenter was a guy I met at an airport and just hit it off with during a really long layover. We had beers together and just told each other tall tales.
I met my first wife because she was walking her dog at a campground we were both staying at. It was a puppy and we watched him play.
Another relationship started with a group of friends. I had known a woman in this group for years and I don't even know when/where we met. One day, we just thought a bit differently about one another.
A couple of years ago my wife and I went to a crowded beer garden, and we moved over to allow another couple to share our table. We wound up talking for a few hours, and the other couple started dropping hints. Not my lifestyle, we let it go, but it was a nice afternoon of conversation.
I am not trying to brag. I think I am pretty average in this area, and in some ways rather boring. I am just trying to illustrate a point. You don't need to meet people to have sex with. You need to meet people to have friends and acquaintances, some of who will want to have sex with you, others will just want your help when it comes to moving.
You are sabotaging yourself by getting into a conversation with hopes and expectations. Instead, enter into the conversation with just a simple possibility. It is possible that the person you say something to may be interested in saying something back. If that something gives you a prompt to respond, do it. You just started a conversation. If you do this a hundred times, you stand a decent chance of making a friend.
Yes. What what fishbrains is saying right there ^ and what I was saying in my post, it's called NETWORKING.
What is pretty magical about it, is that it opens up a lot of possibilities for a variety of potential benefits. When you meet a human being, if you and they actually enjoy interacting enough to keep interacting, then you may also gain access to their entire network as well. And that network could include possible romantic or sexual opportunities.
Creative people pretty much have to do this if they want to be successful marketing whatever they create. Does it come more naturally to some than others? Absolutely hell yes it does.
I have to give credit to my husband for a second. For an introvert who is not super great at socializing, he has done a thing throughout his life that's pretty genius. Just about every person he has formed a close friendship or connection to, myself included, is an outgoing social powerhouse with a lot of connections. He then gains access to extroverts' networks by proxy without having to exhaust himself making all of those connections himself. So there ARE alternate strategies for those who are pretty normal people but just kinda introverts or a bit on the shy or quiet side.
But human beings do best when we are socially connected, it's part of our species' survival strategy overall. Not any one of us can or does live in a bubble independent of the activities of other humans. We NEED each other. All of the institutions and things we've created are in some way connected to our need to interact with other people. Where does money come from and why does it exist? Other people, the need to trade with other people. If you really insist on being in a bubble and reject others unless they serve an extremely rigid predetermined purpose in your life, you will lack opportunities for success in a variety of ways, beyond even sexual/romantic.
And in a sense, asking humanity to adapt to the needs of the misanthropes, who embrace and nurture whatever part of their mental innards is so inclined rather than working to adapt themselves to the realities of their own species... It is asking humanity to de-evolve and reward the very opposite of what has helped us survive and thrive here.
Understand that if you project mad vibes of "I don't know how to behave around other humans, I expect rejection and social shunning and I act in ways that invite it" ...you are the world's shortest giraffe wondering why the lady giraffes don't want to kneel down and give you a chance, man. But on the brighter side...your problem is not physiological, it's behavioral, which means you could do something about it, were you so inclined.
Regarding women who exhibit "Leave me alone, I'm busy" signs in the form of magazines, phones, closed body language, the old books & earbuds... As a woman, and other women can chime in if they agree/not...I am still HIGHLY situationally aware when I'm doing that. If another person moves into the room or space, I will always very quickly glance at them, and I have a mental snapshot of what people are around me. And if I were to notice someone who looked interesting in some way, and if I were for some reason feeling like interacting with other people, open to possibilities, I would (I have) put away the phone/book, removed the earbuds, look around and be open to interaction. If I don't, it's because either I don't feel like talking to anybody at all, or I didn't see anyone who fit my idea of "interesting." And no, that is not a "Chad" thing. That's the guy who looks like he plays D&D or the girl with the cool hair or the person wearing a shirt of a band I like. Or it's just me feeling like being chatty with whoever.
So no, I would not be sitting there as a sexually available woman letting good opportunities pass me by.
And in a sense, asking humanity to adapt to the needs of the misanthropes, who embrace and nurture whatever part of their mental innards is so inclined rather than working to adapt themselves to the realities of their own species... It is asking humanity to de-evolve and reward the very opposite of what has helped us survive and thrive here.
Understand that if you project mad vibes of "I don't know how to behave around other humans, I expect rejection and social shunning and I act in ways that invite it" ...you are the world's shortest giraffe wondering why the lady giraffes don't want to kneel down and give you a chance, man. But on the brighter side...your problem is not physiological, it's behavioral, which means you could do something about it, were you so inclined.
That is a really good point. A lot of people who struggle with peopling, so to speak, seem to want the easy way out. They don't want to have pay attention to other people and what they're saying verbally (and even non-verbally.) They're trying to crack the code, but the code isn't what they think it is.
Yes. What what fishbrains is saying right there ^ and what I was saying in my post, it's called NETWORKING.
What is pretty magical about it, is that it opens up a lot of possibilities for a variety of potential benefits. When you meet a human being, if you and they actually enjoy interacting enough to keep interacting, then you may also gain access to their entire network as well. And that network could include possible romantic or sexual opportunities.
Creative people pretty much have to do this if they want to be successful marketing whatever they create. Does it come more naturally to some than others? Absolutely hell yes it does.
I have to give credit to my husband for a second. For an introvert who is not super great at socializing, he has done a thing throughout his life that's pretty genius. Just about every person he has formed a close friendship or connection to, myself included, is an outgoing social powerhouse with a lot of connections. He then gains access to extroverts' networks by proxy without having to exhaust himself making all of those connections himself. So there ARE alternate strategies for those who are pretty normal people but just kinda introverts or a bit on the shy or quiet side.
But human beings do best when we are socially connected, it's part of our species' survival strategy overall. Not any one of us can or does live in a bubble independent of the activities of other humans. We NEED each other. All of the institutions and things we've created are in some way connected to our need to interact with other people. Where does money come from and why does it exist? Other people, the need to trade with other people. If you really insist on being in a bubble and reject others unless they serve an extremely rigid predetermined purpose in your life, you will lack opportunities for success in a variety of ways, beyond even sexual/romantic.
And in a sense, asking humanity to adapt to the needs of the misanthropes, who embrace and nurture whatever part of their mental innards is so inclined rather than working to adapt themselves to the realities of their own species... It is asking humanity to de-evolve and reward the very opposite of what has helped us survive and thrive here.
Understand that if you project mad vibes of "I don't know how to behave around other humans, I expect rejection and social shunning and I act in ways that invite it" ...you are the world's shortest giraffe wondering why the lady giraffes don't want to kneel down and give you a chance, man. But on the brighter side...your problem is not physiological, it's behavioral, which means you could do something about it, were you so inclined.
Regarding women who exhibit "Leave me alone, I'm busy" signs in the form of magazines, phones, closed body language, the old books & earbuds... As a woman, and other women can chime in if they agree/not...I am still HIGHLY situationally aware when I'm doing that. If another person moves into the room or space, I will always very quickly glance at them, and I have a mental snapshot of what people are around me. And if I were to notice someone who looked interesting in some way, and if I were for some reason feeling like interacting with other people, open to possibilities, I would (I have) put away the phone/book, removed the earbuds, look around and be open to interaction. If I don't, it's because either I don't feel like talking to anybody at all, or I didn't see anyone who fit my idea of "interesting." And no, that is not a "Chad" thing. That's the guy who looks like he plays D&D or the girl with the cool hair or the person wearing a shirt of a band I like. Or it's just me feeling like being chatty with whoever.
So no, I would not be sitting there as a sexually available woman letting good opportunities pass me by.
You were doing good until the bold... bzzzzz!!!
Surely you know the 'strugglers' are gonna come here and disagree with that... that, contrary to what you say, That Thing We Are Forbidden From Discussing Here *is* the reason they struggle because of 'studies' and so forth and not due to behavior, right?
Surely you know the 'strugglers' are gonna come here and disagree with that... that, contrary to what you say, That Thing We Are Forbidden From Discussing Here *is* the reason they struggle because of 'studies' and so forth and not due to behavior, right?
I am not aware of forbidden topics, but I will take your hint and address this in a macro way.
Who cares? There are lots of things about me that will make me undesirable to women. Try as I might, my hair is always messy. If some woman wants a well groomed guy, that isn't me.
So what? I do not have to be attractive to every woman. I also do not have to hit every preference on any woman's list. Maybe 80% of women are not attracted to me because of some physical or behavioral thing.
That means that I still have a chance with 20% of them. That is ok, because I have not dated even 1/10 of 1% of women, so I have lots of opportunity left.
Let's look at this from the viewpoint of sexual orientation. Take a guy who is 100% gay, no interest at all in women. That probably cuts his dating pool by 95% or more. I don't care how charming a gay man is, I am not having sex with him because I am just not wired that way.
Yet somehow gay men still have emotional and physical relationships. Maybe it isn't about just looking at a single characteristic and giving up.
Maybe we should not be focusing on individual characteristics which can reduce your chances of sexual intimacy. Maybe we should realize that this is a numbers game, and act in such a way as to increase our chances.
I am not aware of forbidden topics, but I will take your hint and address this in a macro way.
Who cares? There are lots of things about me that will make me undesirable to women. Try as I might, my hair is always messy. If some woman wants a well groomed guy, that isn't me.
So what? I do not have to be attractive to every woman. I also do not have to hit every preference on any woman's list. Maybe 80% of women are not attracted to me because of some physical or behavioral thing.
That means that I still have a chance with 20% of them. That is ok, because I have not dated even 1/10 of 1% of women, so I have lots of opportunity left.
Let's look at this from the viewpoint of sexual orientation. Take a guy who is 100% gay, no interest at all in women. That probably cuts his dating pool by 95% or more. I don't care how charming a gay man is, I am not having sex with him because I am just not wired that way.
Yet somehow gay men still have emotional and physical relationships. Maybe it isn't about just looking at a single characteristic and giving up.
Maybe we should not be focusing on individual characteristics which can reduce your chances of sexual intimacy. Maybe we should realize that this is a numbers game, and act in such a way as to increase our chances.
The 'verboten' topic here is 'height' - some folks here fruit out over it for some weirdo reason, who knows.
Anyway, I wasn't speaking for myself but we do have (had?) a handful of posters - who are (were?) - a real HANDFUL over that topic and others - funny-looking noses, weird hair, etc. and my point is they will not pay attention to what *real* people have to say about their *real* experiences and will instead find 'comfort' in silly-assed 'studies' that are purty much meaningless in the long run.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
