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IDK what is meant precisely by "having game" but it is not a phrase that is very appealing to me, particularly in the context of LTRs, because it has a patina of BS about it.
If you mean "something to offer in exchange for putting up with me" then I suppose that is a fairly accurate description at the end of the day.
The term 'game' is rather PUAish and not usually heard outside those circles.
Not a term I or anyone I personally know uses. Sounds more like it's a contraction of 'gameplaying'.
Since this topic involves 'incels', I read up on one - George Sodini. Wanna take a 'shot' - no pun intended - at what he attended prior to shooting up that gym? PUA 'seminars'. And what was one thing they 'taught'?
You guessed it. 'Game'. Along with a bunch of other garbage.
Worked out real well for those women he slaughtered, huh?
I see incels being blamed for mass shootings and murder all the time. That's what the boards and forums seem to think. Incel hate or maybe there is something to it.
We DID demystified sex. Maybe that's what caused the incel problem. Did we have many incels when it was socially correct to save sex for marriage?
This is a valid question.
Some of the incel perception seems to be the idea that everyone else is having something they are not, that they are shut out from that which others so easily enjoy. Reference was made upthread to the female equivalents, which is not the topic, but I was one such woman whom no one would date, and that's exactly how I felt. Everyone but me was having sex and relationships, or so it felt. Reading these types of forums over the years, I realize that was not actually the case, but that's how it seemed in those teenage and early adult years. For some reason, doors opened for others that were closed to me, and it was sad and frustrating.
I turned inward, blamed myself, tried my damndest to work on the flaws that made my appearance unacceptable and to accept my physical flaws that could not be fixed, and maybe that's a female thing and the reason young women like the one I was don't grab guns and go out shooting people. We turn it inward. But I did have internal anger knowing that other women seemed to be able to just casually speak of dating and get someone to pay attention to them just by snapping their fingers. There was pain in that.
In the days when people were ostensibly saving themselves for marriage, there was an excuse. No one, on the surface, anyway, was expecting you to be having sex. Ugly women were called "plain" or "shy" and bachelors were just absorbed in their work or also shy or not interested or whatever, but there were social excuses for one's lack of desirability, and there was no shame in not having the opportunity for sexual activity because you weren't supposed to be doing it anyway unless you were married.
We live in a culture of sexual capitalism, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Of course, nobody cares about the poor, or how they got that way. How do we solve it? With a sexual welfare system?
We live in a culture of sexual capitalism, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Of course, nobody cares about the poor, or how they got that way. How do we solve it? With a sexual welfare system?
Hm. Let's see. Capitalism is a system where trade is controlled by private owners for profit.
Outside of prostitution, I don't see any economic profiteering going on in sexual relationships.
Sex is between (usually) two persons, for fun and not money, and requires mutual consent.
As I understand it, the problem incels have is that they never get consent from their desired partners, or from any partners. It may be that many possible partners are already engaged in exclusive relationships, but the more fundamental complaint seems to be that even available partners consider sex with an incel beneath themselves.
Since we know that, all things being equal, unalterable and unchosen physical appearance is not an invariable obstacle to sex, and we know that people have intimate relationships across all sorts of lines all the time, including economic and cultural, I don't really see how there's some contrived / artificial scarcity of partners that leads to "haves" and "have nots".
So the capitalist metaphor doesn't work at all for me.
I am very much opposed to "blame the victim" mentalities but it seems to me that incels, in the main, exhibit behaviors and attitudes and mindsets that make them unattractive to most other people. The only shortage is a shortage of people who find depressive, moping people who think they have no agency to be attractive. This then becomes something for the incel to work on, not random potential sex partners. So this is a case where the complainant is not really a victim and has to accept who is the common denominator here. In any case, working on yourself is actionable. Railing against how everyone else is, is NOT actionable.
And this circles back to what I was talking about earlier...
I, a woman, a woman who had plenty of interest from men and women sexually and romantically at any moment I was available to engage with it in my life... I do not personally find inexperience or even virginity in men to be unappealing, by itself. I have no issue with THAT.
I married an inexperienced man, who was 56 years old at the time. But the thing is... He did NOT talk, act, or think the way that "incels" that I've encountered on the internet do. I did not think of him as one, though I guess he may have met the technical criteria at the time. The word now has a different meaning. And I do not only say that because of that Eliot kid or the other few guys who have actually killed people...I was familiar with the word before they ever hit the news. Why? Because I was HERE on CD posting in Relationships and elsewhere, and we had our share of them, who showed up frequently and who used that word to describe themselves, not only as individuals who weren't getting laid, but as part of some kind of a "movement." A pro men, and decidedly anti woman movement.
I'm not even talking about the guys we see here now. The Mods of this site have done a LOT of work in the decade plus that I've been here, to clean up and prevent some of the worst stuff that used to once be very common (and I thank them, since their efforts are often thankless.) No, these guys would show up to start gender wars or to supposedly try to get women to "admit" that we were engaged in cruel and unfair behaviors that ruined most men's chances of happiness. It is a whole arse CONSPIRACY THEORY which should not be shocking since there was a very big overlap with Q-Anon and its Chan board origins, these dudes were there, too, a lot of them. It is a whole mindset that is determined to construct and cling to a narrative that the world operates by this nefarious clockwork of evil that most people aid and abet and cooperate with, without even knowing it. And from there it just gets crazier and crazier until you have the "Kings" website talking about women need to be put into cages like cattle and assigned to men to be bred.
So when ya'll talk about "sex capitalism" and sex as a commodity that is unfairly distributed, you are standing firmly in a position where women are not people, we are livestock.
And you frickin wonder why nobody wants to date you?!?!?
At this point, having seen the worst of it, if a man so much as breathes a hint, the slightest whiff of any of that attitude or lingo anywhere I could see, hear or smell it, I would not only run the other way I'd warn every woman I knew. And this is not at all a matter of punishing a poor lonely man, when you decide that women are your enemies and their agency is the reason you suffer, and that the only solution is forcing their compliance somehow...that it's all a zero sum game where the only way to win is to subjugate other people... Once you embrace that? I don't know how you can ask for compassion from people that you want to see or treat that way. And if you don't want to be seen as that, then do not go join those groups and embrace their language and ideologies. Ain't nobody making you. Not to mention, those guys might commiserate with your suffering, but if you think they might have advice that can help you, you're asking the blind to lead the blind.
I tried for a long time to have empathy, to carefully go to where these guys are at, take their hand, and try to slow walk them to a more reasonable place. But they do not budge. My patience has worn thin. Ya wanna stay stuck, stay stuck. But do not expect any woman to martyr and sacrifice herself to "save" you, when your mindset is that stubbornly toxic.
At this point, having seen the worst of it, if a man so much as breathes a hint, the slightest whiff of any of that attitude or lingo anywhere I could see, hear or smell it, I would not only run the other way I'd warn every woman I knew. And this is not at all a matter of punishing a poor lonely man, when you decide that women are your enemies and their agency is the reason you suffer, and that the only solution is forcing their compliance somehow...that it's all a zero sum game where the only way to win is to subjugate other people... Once you embrace that? I don't know how you can ask for compassion from people that you want to see or treat that way. And if you don't want to be seen as that, then do not go join those groups and embrace their language and ideologies. Ain't nobody making you. Not to mention, those guys might commiserate with your suffering, but if you think they might have advice that can help you, you're asking the blind to lead the blind.
When this subject comes up, it's always posited that prostitution is a solution for the problem of incels not being able to have the sex that they think they deserve. Even sex workers shouldn't have to be confronted with maladaptive behavior and disrespectful ideas about women.
When this subject comes up, it's always posited that prostitution is a solution for the problem of incels not being able to have the sex that they think they deserve. Even sex workers shouldn't have to be confronted with maladaptive behavior and disrespectful ideas about women.
Uh huh.
And another thing on this note... A lot of people act as though prostitutes never say no, that in fact they never would or even can't, so long as their price is paid.
There is one and ONLY one kind of situation where that is accurate. When the woman in question has been trafficked or is held in a slavery situation. That's it. The man who says that, sees prostitution as that, and if he is also suggesting that such a solution should be appropriate or available, he should pause and consider this.
Voluntary sex workers can and do have the right to say no, and if a man seems to be a safety concern to a woman, she absolutely should. She is still a person with agency, not an object that any buyer can go purchase. She is not selling herself, she is selling a service. She is not a commodity.
And for anyone who can't imagine a prostitute saying no to a man who is willing to pay, I've seen it happen. A man I know pursued sex with a woman who was addicted to drugs and known to engage in prostitution, she fully admitted it, and she'd done time for it. She refused him, no matter what he offered. And I don't blame her, as much of a toxic mess as he was at the time.
Last edited by Sonic_Spork; 03-09-2022 at 11:14 AM..
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