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Old 07-14-2023, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,218 posts, read 57,105,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaByrd View Post
I'mma cherrypick here and say that I don't think it's up to anyone to say what "should" be "fixed" on another human being. Okay, Mitch, you're a guy, so yes, this chaps me because I'm sensitive to men telling women that they should "fix" things on their faces and bodies. Our faces and bodies are ours, not men's, and we don't owe it to men to be attractive to them, never mind take on the risks of surgery to do so.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that people who don't have "perfect" dimensions are often considered the most attractive. I'm Italian-American, mostly from the north (Milan), and my beak sure as heck never kept men away. And it was a mistake for Jennifer Grey to get her nose done. She has said as much, herself. It took her from cute as heck to bland.

Now this next comment is not aimed at you, Mitch, so please don't think it is. But sometimes I wonder if there are men out there who objectify women so much that on some unconscious level they want us all to look similar so as to be easily interchangeable. Unique looks are a reminder of individuality, and individuality is the very essence of being human. No individuality, no humanity. No humanity, just another thing to be owned, used, and tossed away or replaced. That's probably closer to incel thinking, but it's food for thought.

Well, I'm using "fix" in the context that if a feature makes a lady feel self-conscious and it bothers her, and particularly I'm thinking of "fixing" wingnut ears - if they want that feature changed, they ought to get it changed. So they can feel good about themselves. That's all.

I, personally, have dated several individual ladies over the years, and they didn't particularly look alike.

I, personally, know several ladies with rather big noses and consider them quite attractive. But that's just me. Of course all the features of their face have to "work" together for me to consider them attractive.

 
Old 07-14-2023, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth Milky Way
1,424 posts, read 1,285,283 times
Reputation: 2797
Elenore Roosevelt wasn't exactly a beauty queen but she didn't struggle.
 
Old 07-14-2023, 07:11 PM
 
21,895 posts, read 12,991,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lluvia View Post
Elenore Roosevelt wasn't exactly a beauty queen but she didn't struggle.
It was a much, MUCH less shallow society back then, IMO.
 
Old 07-15-2023, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,824,933 times
Reputation: 12084
It has been said when you tell a woman she's pretty you're looking at her face, when you say she's hot you're looking at her body, but when you say she's beautiful you're looking at her heart.

We can make are hearts as beautiful.
 
Old 07-15-2023, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,625 posts, read 84,875,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lluvia View Post
Elenore Roosevelt wasn't exactly a beauty queen but she didn't struggle.
She had a family-approved society type of marriage--to a distant cousin too yet--and her husband had a mistress throughout most of it. That is not a struggle?
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Old 07-15-2023, 08:36 AM
 
11,081 posts, read 6,903,040 times
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There is strong evidence that she did struggle, and there are also rumors that she was a lesbian and that it was a marriage of convenience. Who knows?
 
Old 07-15-2023, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
There is strong evidence that she did struggle, and there are also rumors that she was a lesbian and that it was a marriage of convenience. Who knows?
Yes, that's why I left out the supposed lesbian part. No one knows that for sure.

But I believe it is pretty well documented that she found FDR's love letters to Lucy, confronted him, and agreed not to divorce him for fear of hindering his political ambitions.

It may not have been unusual in her time and class to accept that there was a mistress. And in the end, she was much, much more than a wife or even a First Lady. Her lack of beauty only hurt her if it was her husband's love she truly wanted, and I guess she took those thoughts to her grave.
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Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 07-15-2023 at 09:48 AM..
 
Old 07-15-2023, 11:38 AM
 
1,702 posts, read 784,991 times
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Eleanor and FDR had 6 children. She may not have been a beauty queen, he may have had a mistress, and she may have been more attracted to women… with all this in mind they were still attracted to each other enough to make a large number of children. Even before birth control, making 6 kids required some passion.
 
Old 07-15-2023, 11:45 AM
 
21,895 posts, read 12,991,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
But I believe it is pretty well documented that she found FDR's love letters to Lucy, confronted him, and agreed not to divorce him for fear of hindering his political ambitions.
People, or at least women, didn't divorce over affairs in the past like they do now... In some society circles, it was expected and considered normal, especially past a certain age. "Don't ask, don't tell." I don't know that it wasn't a more sensible approach than breaking up a home and family because a man strays. If indeed Eleanor were gay, but even if she weren't and it was just a marriage of convenience to a cousin, she almost certainly wouldn't have cared!
 
Old 07-16-2023, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,625 posts, read 84,875,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
People, or at least women, didn't divorce over affairs in the past like they do now... In some society circles, it was expected and considered normal, especially past a certain age. "Don't ask, don't tell." I don't know that it wasn't a more sensible approach than breaking up a home and family because a man strays. If indeed Eleanor were gay, but even if she weren't and it was just a marriage of convenience to a cousin, she almost certainly wouldn't have cared!
They especially didn't divorce quickly in the social strata into which they were born back then. It says she found the love letters in 1918, so she would have been 34, hardly ancient, although Lucy was 7 years younger, and Lucy married a high-society widower after that, but the affair between her and FDR continued until.his death.

At any rate, regardless of her looks or her marriage, (and looking at photos of her in her youth, she wasn't horribly homely IMO) she was above all intelligent and savvy enough to take her place in public service and history beginning when her husband's paralytic illness manifested in the early 1920s.

Whatever their arrangement may have been, Eleanor worked it and came out on top. Perhaps if she had been a great beauty, she might have faded into history as nothing more than another pretty mannequin on a powerful man's arm.
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